Cowen & Anglo & Golf

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Birroc

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I just don't get it - what are the media getting at? what are they trying it stick to Brian Cowen about what he said or didn't say during that game of golf and lunch? I have never and will never vote FF but are they saying this golf game affected his actions with regards nationalising Anlgo or doing the bank guarantee or what? Anglo never did get the NTMA money. So whats the fuss here? Is there a Jack Nicholson moment here somewhere from Cowen? i.e. where he screams "you cant handle the truth!". Please someone explain the significance of it all to me.
 
The media and the opposition have the smell of blood in their nostrils.

At this stage the likes of Pat Rabbitte, Miriam O' Callaghan and wannabe Miriam O' Callaghans have personally invested themselves in getting rid of FF and Cowen.

They want it so badly that they don't realise how tiresome it has become for the general public.

FF & Cowen are gone in March. Let them run the country without the distraction of this for the final two months and we will all have our say in March.

I feel most sorry for John Gormley by the way! You could just see the look of incredulity on his face earlier this week - "Am I genuinely being harassed by the media and put in a position where I must defend myself over a game of golf played by Brian Cowen 2.5 years ago???"
 
Birroc said:
I just don't get it, whats the fuss here?
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Whats the fuss???

The timeline of events here is the problem and Brian Cowen's original statments regarding the day and now other people's evidence of the day.


March 2008: Anglo Irish Shares collapse. A conversation takes place between Fitzpatrick and Cowen on the matter. Fitzpatrick also told Cowen (minister for finance) by phone that "there was an issue with bank shares held by Sean Quinn" - he was advised to ring by Fintan Drury (close friend of Cowen, Director of Anglo Irish). Anglo then informt the Financial Regulator that the share placing was to ensure “the market price of the company’s shares will not be destabilised”

April 2008:
Brian Cowen has a private dinner with Directors of Anglo Irish Bank. Source says "He (Cowen) was acutely aware of our problems"
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May 2008: Cowen becomes Taoiseach

July 2008:
10% of Anglo Irish Bank is placed with 10 of its clients in a move not disclosed to the Irish Stock Exchange with loans for the shares being provided by Anglo.
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July 2008: Brian Cowen plays golf in Druids Glen with Sean Fitzpatrick and Fintan Drury (a friend of Cowens). The occasion was described as an "unscheduled" and "social" one. Mary Coughlan described it as "Fundraising event"

* Fitzpatrick recalls his golf with Cowen by saying...'Anglo wanted [Cowen] to have a word about it placing some of its money on deposit with the bank. He said he'd look into it.'
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* Cowen states: "I am quite clear that no discussions regarding Anglo Irish Bank took place"
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September 2008: Bank Guarantee and Anglo are included minutes before their complete failing


9th Jan 2011:
Previously undisclosed contacts between Brian Cowen and Seán FitzPatrick are revealed in a new book on FitzPatrick. the former Anglo Irish Bank chairman says they had a phone conversation in March 2008 and a golf game and dinner on July 28th, 2008. Cowen confirms the golf game but says Anglo’s problems were not discussed.
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10th Jan 2011: Cowen asked in Dail about golf outing with Fitzpatrick to which Cowen replies
“There was nothing untoward, no hidden or secret agenda and no concessions, favours or interventions requested or granted,”
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12th Jan 2011:
More details emerge about Cowen’s contacts with Anglo Irish Bank figures in the lead-up to the bank guarantee in 2008. Following questions from Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, the Taoiseach tells the Dáil his dinner with FitzPatrick after a golf game in July 2008 was also attended by a second Anglo director, Gary McGann, former Anglo director Fintan Drury and a director of the Central Bank, Alan Gray.
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Cowen describes McGann as a director of Smurfit Group and no reference to him being a director of Anglo also. Caoimhghín was at Druids Glen on the same day as this golf and dinner, but at a seperate event and spotted and said hello to Cowen.

Also, why was the Finance Minister (Cowen), a director of the Central Bank and two Anglo directors, as well as a former director (Fintan Drury) at this "unscheduled" dinner. Cowen spent more than nine hours in the company of these people and claims that Anglo was never mentioned once...
 
...and was this the first game of golf that Cowen ever had with Sean Fitzpatrick or was it a regular event?
 
The three lads where playing in a three man team scamble with cowen looking after the handicaps!!
 
When this story first broke, Cowen said it was a social occasion. When the extra names were mentioned it suddenly became a think-tank to discuss ways of stimulating the economy. The irony of the Ango guys discussing how to best run the economy when they could not even fun their own business.

Also, Michael Sommers was on the Pat Kenny Show this morning. He said the NTMA bought €40 million worth of Anglo shares in August 2007. They tried to sell them a few months later because of the growing risk, but it turned out they had to hold on to them for 12 months. When PK put it to him was there pressure to hold on to them after August 2008, he said he had "no recollection" why they did not sell them after the 12 months in August 2008. I did not think he sounded convining.
 
I can't really understand the worth of the obvious internal implosion going on in FF over the golf game. Sure they are about to get wiped off the face of the political planet at the next election. So, rather than clawing at each other like drowning rats in a burlap sack, would they not all be individually better off sending out a few CVs looking for alternative work?
 
I guess people are trying to work out what changed between Feb 2008, when the [broken link removed] was that "As a matter of public policy to protect the interests of taxpayers any requirement to provide open-ended legally binding guarantees which would expose the Exchequer to the risk of very significant costs are not regarded as part of the toolkit for successful crisis management" to Sept 2008, when suddenly an open ended guarantee was seen as the only solution.
 
I'd say we all know what went on and if proven the repercussions dont bear thinking about. I don't think FG or Labour want this dail to end as they know they are getting the poo.

And remember while they are still in government they are getting paid, claiming expenses and best of all increasing their pensions, which they will need.

In the end its a game and you can see the glee in their faces as the line up for TV coverage.

Wasters all of them but very well paid wasters.

noah
 
Question made me smile. Well I think if you can not see any issue with Cowen meeting these people (bankers etc) at such a time in such a place while the rest of the country is running around like headless chickenss trying to salvage a job, pay the hiked mortgage (wonder why that was) and maKe ends meet then you would not appreciate my answer, with respect. All I can say, when I heard it just added to my embarrassment of having these guys making decisions for our country.

M
 
With respect Maximus I don't think you understood the question. I know FF have made a mess of this country but I want to know, in conjunction with the timing of the golf game, whether Cowen broke a law here, whether he made a decision with insider knowledge that he shouldn't have e.g. would he have given the bank guarantee whether the golf game took place or not? Is there a Nixon moment here, a revelation that would force a resignation?
Seemingly not because he remains.
 
Birroc said:
With respect Maximus I don't think you understood the question. I know FF have made a mess of this country but I want to know, in conjunction with the timing of the golf game, whether Cowen broke a law here, whether he made a decision with insider knowledge that he shouldn't have e.g. would he have given the bank guarantee whether the golf game took place or not? Is there a Nixon moment here, a revelation that would force a resignation?
Seemingly not because he remains.
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If Ireland had a genuine democracy there would be an impeachment of sorts.

An independent criminal inquiry needs to be made into the whole sorry gov/banking mess
 
Um no I get what the question was about, I just was giving my 2 cents worth, I do digres at times...

M
 
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