Time for cantons in Ireland?

shnaek

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Isn't it time we admit our system of government is an enormous failure, and perhaps look at alternatives? Should we split our country into Cantons, like the Swiss?

"The concepts of devolution of power, local autonomy, and participatory democracy have produced the world's most peaceful and prosperous country. Of course, Switzerland, with its compulsory military service, state controlled monetary system, railroad and telephone services, and taxation, is not a pure libertarian society – but for those interested in reining in out-of-control governments in other parts of the world, there are large parts of the Swiss cantonal system that are worthy of emulation. "

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We have an out-of-control and particularly useless government. We need a whole new system. Our country is broken, and tinkering around isn't going to fix it. We need to go radical. Arguments for? Against?
 
Have you any experience of the Swiss tax system - I have and it is a nightmare due to the Cantons - you have federal taxes cantonal taxes and capital taxes and pay each separately to the Cantons. I can only hope they wouldn't introduce something similar in Ireland....
 
Different cantons in Switzerland have different public holidays.

So suppose we go with provinces as an easy example
Bit of a mess if you maybe your supplier is in Munster and your customer in Leinster and sometimes they would be closed when you are open and the other way around too
Well I suppose employers can pay double time if they want the staff in on a holiday
 
Ireland is small enough that one canton would be enough - would allow us to get rid of the pletora of useless local authorities.
 
As an educator, I'm against it. Our kids have enough difficulty learning Irish and English at school. What would it be like if they had to master Cantonese, too?
 
As an educator, I'm against it. Our kids have enough difficulty learning Irish and English at school. What would it be like if they had to master Cantonese, too?

And what would become of my Friday night specials of Szechuan Kung Pao Chicken or Twice Cooked Pork :eek: ?
 
We need a whole new system.

But 'we' are the problem and the systems of politics and public administration are those that 'we' demand.

I listened to an item on Pat Kenny last week about Martin Mansergh and Mattie McGrath doing constituency walkabouts in Clonmel. The opinions expressed by the locals, with regard to what they expected of their TD, were almost alien to me, yet their vote is as valid as mine. We the people have too many vested interestes in the system as it is and a radical change is simply not possible.
 
Can you imagine the waste if we had to have 4 different provincial governments? 4 different governments going on different junkets on 4 different jets with each ministers wife en-tow?

Switzerland may be a very well run and prosperous country but that has nothing to do with the division of its territory and probably more to do with the mindset of its people.
 
The banks HQ's are in Dublin, Leinster

As a proud Munster man, I hope we secede, let Leinster deal with the NAMA and banking debts. :p
 
The banks HQ's are in Dublin, Leinster

As a proud Munster man, I hope we secede, let Leinster deal with the NAMA and banking debts. :p

lol! True. We got the Pharma's down here in Cork too, which are doing big business at the moment too. Time for Cork to separate into it's own Canton perhaps?
 
lol! True. We got the Pharma's down here in Cork too, which are doing big business at the moment too. Time for Cork to separate into it's own Canton perhaps?

Most Dubs support this idea - would save us a fortune in taxes as we subsidise most parts of the country :)
 
You'd merge North and South Korea and solve peace in the Middle East sooner then merge North and South Tipperary into one canton :eek:

We will have to make Michael Lowry dictator to face down Mattie McGrath and those damn scrounging southerners.

Tipperary has two councils long before anyone, even Dublin.
 
Isn't it time we admit our system of government is an enormous failure, and perhaps look at alternatives? Should we split our country into Cantons, like the Swiss?

"The concepts of devolution of power, local autonomy, and participatory democracy have produced the world's most peaceful and prosperous country. Of course, Switzerland, with its compulsory military service, state controlled monetary system, railroad and telephone services, and taxation, is not a pure libertarian society – but for those interested in reining in out-of-control governments in other parts of the world, there are large parts of the Swiss cantonal system that are worthy of emulation. "

[broken link removed]

We have an out-of-control and particularly useless government. We need a whole new system. Our country is broken, and tinkering around isn't going to fix it. We need to go radical. Arguments for? Against?
It will come as no surprise that I am a fan of Switzerland, but introducing a federal cantonal system here would possibly make things worse from a government expenditure point of view. Unless the powers of government are restricted I believe that the result here would be radical increase in taxation and government interference at all levels. The other option is the participatory democracy, which seems to work very well in restraining government actions by public mandate. As you say though, anything is better than our current system where politicians do as they like.
I was reading about the free state project in the US a few weeks ago. New Hampshire seems to be the most libertarian state, where legislators get paid $100 and their powers are restricted. Fear of course would be whether such a low "income" would make the legislators more susceptible to corruption, but NH is one of the lowest ranking states in public corruption. Some interesting information: http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons



But 'we' are the problem and the systems of politics and public administration are those that 'we' demand.

I listened to an item on Pat Kenny last week about Martin Mansergh and Mattie McGrath doing constituency walkabouts in Clonmel. The opinions expressed by the locals, with regard to what they expected of their TD, were almost alien to me, yet their vote is as valid as mine. We the people have too many vested interestes in the system as it is and a radical change is simply not possible.

You make a good point. I think the big problem is that no matter what your political leanings are that you have to make lots of compromises when it comes to voting. The amount of things politicians can influence is scandalous, and it is impossible for a voter to know in detail what their favoured candidate's opinion is on everything they can influence.
It's like going to a supermarket for bread, milk, jam and a bottle of wine. When you get there you are given the choice of several shopping trollies packed to the rim. You spot bread and jam in one, milk in another, and one of them seems to have all except milk, but a huge amount of other stuff that you cannot quite identify. If you explicitly restrict the powers of government then voters can make much clearer decisions and actually get what they want.
In absence of such restrictions, what I like about the Swiss system most is that new legislation, that is deemed significant, is put to the people for a referendum. This not only keeps politicians on track, but is also a system that respects the true meaning of democracy, i.e. people's power or people's rule.
I heard a TD on the radio recently (I think it was NewsTalk), in response to a comment that big government decisions should be put to the people, say that that would be a Swiss style system and that no decisions would ever be made. The interviewer was quick off the mark to say that Switzerland is in a whole lot better situation than Ireland and that the system has worked pretty well for the Swiss for a long time.
 
The other option is the participatory democracy, which seems to work very well in restraining government actions by public mandate.

One thing that we are badly missing is a recall system. We need some mechanism whereby an election can be called, a president/government removed, legislation cancelled following verifiable objections from a significant proportion of the electorate.

I agree with those who say that when we elect people to govern, we should let them get on with it and shouldnt second guess every decision, but we still need a system whereby e.g. 2/3rds electorate, can block things or force elections. Its regarded as good governance for PLCs, clubs, societies etc. to have rules whereby a % of members/shareholders can trigger an EGM. Yet, we dont have this for the most important elected body in the country.
 
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