overseas fraudsters claiming benefits in Ireland

[BazFitz]

.... I do however object to subsiding fraudsters from Northern Ireland who claim benefits in both jurisdictions and fraudsters who've long departed the State but continue to leech benefits. The waste and leakage in this country is ludicrous.

 

[Sunny]

... I do however object to subsidising fraudsters from Northern Ireland who claim benefits in both jurisdictions and fraudsters who've long departed the State but continue to leech benefits. The waste and leakage in this country is ludicrous.

No offense but this is not Utopia. Without an economy, you do not have a society. EVERYTHING has to be paid for.

 

[Sunny]

By the way, I include pensions on this. I know retired people on €50k pensions who still get the State pension on top of this. We need to start helping the people who need help. Not every Mr and Mrs Smith and their little Johnny.

 

[DB74]

EVERYTHING has to be paid for.

It doesn't all have to be paid for by the high-earners though.

 

[Sunny]

It doesn't all have to be paid for by the high-earners though.

Totally agree.

 

[DB74]

By the way, I include pensions on this. I know retired people on €50k pensions who still get the State pension on top of this. We need to start helping the people who need help. Not every Mr and Mrs Smith and their little Johnny.

That's terrible though - some people have paid PRSI all their working life and who will (in all probability) have included the State Pension when determining how much to put away into their own pension fund.

You now advocate pulling the rug out from under them.

The State Pension is already taxable anyway

 

[Sunny]

That's terrible though - some people have paid PRSI all their working life and who will (in all probability) have included the State Pension when determining how much to put away into their own pension fund.

You now advocate pulling the rug out from under them.

The State Pension is already taxable anyway

I accept that. I should clarify that if you look at what pensioners have contributed compared to other income earners for the last couple of budgets, it has been poor. The state pension is too generous and they haven't suffered a cut. They are not subject to income levy. Look at how the Government was forced to back down over the medical card. Not everyone needs the money. We have limited resources so I would rather a poor pensioner living on the poverty line is guaranteed the help they need rather than help someone that doesn't need it.

 

[DB74]

I would be looking at cutting the non-contributory pension - should be a max of 75% of the contributory one IMO - at the moment I think it's 90%

 

[Complainer]

So the UK can remove child benefit from any family earning over £44,000. Wonder would we have the same courage to at least reduce ours?

I wonder if we'll have the 'courage' to cut tax breaks on pension savings (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1004/budget.html) or tax breaks on private healthcare or tax breaks on private college, or tax breaks in investments in building private healthcare clinics, or tax breaks on property investments?

Do you think that some of these issues should be addressed before we start looking at child benefit?

 

[Sunny]

I wonder if we'll have the 'courage' to cut tax breaks on pension savings (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1004/budget.html) or tax breaks on private healthcare or tax breaks on private college, or tax breaks in investments in building private healthcare clinics, or tax breaks on property investments?

Do you think that some of these issues should be addressed before we start looking at child benefit?

Yes I do. Doesn't change the fact the Government hasn't had to courage to make a tough decision in the past when it came to social welfare related payments. And anyone who thinks we can solve the current problems by getting rid of tax breaks and not touch things like social welfare are deluded.

 

[Marietta]

There are more than 400,000 people unemployed in the State but I'm sure a large proportion of those jetted off to the sun this summer. I'm sure plenty of them hoover pints and cigarettes all week without any thought in relation to how the State finances itself.

Please where is your proof for this generalised statement.

I am sure many people did jet off to the sun this year however, I have no doubt many of these are people who were laid off their jobs and used redundancies or savings to pay for it. Now come on, how can someone on the dole afford to pay for a holiday abroad

 

[Sunny]

OT Discussion Split from UK child benefit treshold thread

Because the person on €1,000,000 a year is paying a fortune in tax. In my view, they should get some benefit for that. It isn't fair that someone who contributes nothing to society gets everything for free while the person contributing a lot to society gets nothing.

The simple solution is to tax all social welfare benefits. That way, the wealthy have their child benefit cut by approximately 50% and the stay on the dole/go out to work anomaly is addressed (i.e. the disincentive to go to work).

No offence but that makes no sense. For a start there are not 400,000 on the dole because they want to be or because there is no incentive to get a job. Secondly, so you really believe that someone should get child benefit because they pay lots of tax? Thirdly, there is no easy solution!

 

[BazFitz]

No offence but that makes no sense. For a start there are not 400,000 on the dole because they want to be or because there is no incentive to get a job. Secondly, so you really believe that someone should get child benefit because they pay lots of tax? Thirdly, there is no easy solution!

Of course not.

However, even during the good times there were more than 100,000 people on the dole. These are clearly people who won't work so they should be forced to do so.

I believe that those who contribute are already contributing enough. The way out of this mess is to bring more lower paid people into the tax net, to eliminate waste and to (yes I know) go after public sector pay again.

 

[Marietta]

Of course not.

However, even during the good times there were more than 100,000 people on the dole. These are clearly people who won't work so they should be forced to do so.

I believe that those who contribute are already contributing enough. The way out of this mess is to bring more lower paid people into the tax net, to eliminate waste and to (yes I know) go after public sector pay again.

BazFitz, no offence taken however, even during the good times we had vulnerable people in our society such as the disabled, the blind, mentally ill, sick, chronically depressed, elderly etc. They do make up a significant amount of the unemployed. Since the earliest of times it has always been accepted that a proportion of the population were unable to support themselves and have to be provided for by their communities and in more modern times by the State.

 

[BazFitz]

BazFitz, no offence taken however, even during the good times we had vulnerable people in our society such as the disabled, the blind, mentally ill, sick, chronically depressed, elderly etc. They do make up a significant amount of the unemployed. Since the earliest of times it has always been accepted that a proportion of the population were unable to support themselves and have to be provided for by their communities and in more modern times by the State.

I 100% agree and believe it's our duty to look after those people. However, I firmly believe that waste is our biggest problem. Social welfare fraud is rampant. There are people getting €40,000 per annum in benefits. The public service is full of people that could never show up to work ever again without any decline in the quality of the service. Wards are now dangerously understaffed but Conor Lenihan has two drivers taking him to and from the Dail. It's what's done with our taxes that's the outrage.

 

[Marietta]

The public service is full of people that could never show up to work ever again without any decline in the quality of the service.

Yes I am aware of this and my honest opinion is they should be removed forthwith, they are worse than the scoungers who do abuse the social welfare system.

 

[BazFitz]

The greatest abomination is the HSE. Student nurses aren't being given fulltime contracts and the use of agency nurses is banned. As a result, the lives of patients are being put at risk due to chronic unstaffing on wards. Meanwhile, tens of people continue to do administrative work within the HSE. The point of merging the various health boards was to get synergy. Instead of having (say) ten finance directors, 10 public relations officers and 10 logistics directors, you'd have one of each and save millions (these people usually earn more than €80,000 per annum and have defined pensions so their capitalized cost to the State probably runs to somewhere between €1,000,000 and €2,000,000 each). And then Bertie stepped in and stated that there'd be no redundancies. So now there are thousands of useless people in the public service who literally have nothing to do.

I know someone in the public service who was savaged by their boss for changing the clock in the office to reflect "summer time" (i.e. the hour). They were advised that there were people in the OPW whose job that was. Eh, hello!

 

[Complainer]

Social welfare fraud is rampant.

Source please?

The public service is full of people that could never show up to work ever again without any decline in the quality of the service.

Source please?

So now there are thousands of useless people in the public service who literally have nothing to do.

Source please?

I know someone in the public service who was savaged by their boss for changing the clock in the office to reflect "summer time" (i.e. the hour). They were advised that there were people in the OPW whose job that was. Eh, hello!

Yeah, we've all heard this urban myths about the clocks, and de blacks who leave their buggies behind, and the HSE who buy taxies for them. They're all myths. Let's get past the 'I know someone' school of policy development.

The greatest abomination is the HSE. Student[....] Meanwhile, tens of people continue to do administrative work within the HSE. The point of merging the various health boards was to get synergy. Instead of having (say) ten finance directors, 10 public relations officers and 10 logistics directors, you'd have one of each and save millions (these people usually earn more than €80,000 per annum and have defined pensions so their capitalized cost to the State probably runs to somewhere between €1,000,000 and €2,000,000 each).

THis is very simplistic. No private sector merger or takeover would operate on such a simplistic basis.

 

[BazFitz]

Source please?

Source please?


Source please?

Yeah, we've all heard this urban myths about the clocks, and de blacks who leave their buggies behind, and the HSE who buy taxies for them. They're all myths. Let's get past the 'I know someone' school of policy development.

THis is very simplistic. No private sector merger or takeover would operate on such a simplistic basis.

The above is the ostrich mentality. You expect me to provide you with links which support the following assertions:

- The administrative side of the public sector is overstaffed,

- Social welfare fraud is rampant,

- Bertie Ahern's intervention prevented synergy when the various health boards merged, and

- There are people in the public service with nothing to do.

Why should I? Why don't you attempt to disprove my contentions? Of course no such evidence exists to support either side of the argument. What do you expect me to post - a link to the secret Department of Finance memo in relation to overstaffing in the public service?

No private sector merger would result in zero synergy and no redundancies. Do you think that if (say) Tesco Ireland and Dunnes Stores merged there'd be no redundancies in the back office? Pull the other one.

And do you think that the garage owners who receive €18,000 HSE cheques for taxis from immigrants are lying? It's easy to dismiss the opinions and views of real people with real experiences when trying to have a lofty social argument. Do you think we're too laid back in this country in relation to social welfare and have been taken advantage of by opportunists from sub Saharan Africa?

 

[Complainer]

The above is the ostrich mentality. You expect me to provide you with links which support the following assertions:

- The administrative side of the public sector is overstaffed,

- Social welfare fraud is rampant,

- Bertie Ahern's intervention prevented synergy when the various health boards merged, and

- There are people in the public service with nothing to do.

Why should I? Why don't you attempt to disprove my contentions? Of course no such evidence exists to support either side of the argument. What do you expect me to post - a link to the secret Department of Finance memo in relation to overstaffing in the public service?

No private sector merger would result in zero synergy and no redundancies. Do you think that if (say) Tesco Ireland and Dunnes Stores merged there'd be no redundancies in the back office? Pull the other one.

And do you think that the garage owners who receive €18,000 HSE cheques for taxis from immigrants are lying? It's easy to dismiss the opinions and views of real people with real experiences when trying to have a lofty social argument. Do you think we're too laid back in this country in relation to social welfare and have been taken advantage of by opportunists from sub Saharan Africa?

Fair enough so. I guess it must be true because we heard it from a bloke in the pub. Let's build our economic policy around that principle.