Pat Rabitte Lambasting Frontline Audience Member

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DerKaiser

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Anyone see this last night?

Can't imagine it will win him too many friends.

I'd imagine he should be playing it cool and biding his time rather than losing his patience. Also, 13 years in opposition is not something I'd be highlighting on my CV if I was looking to get into power.

He also seemed to imply that as an opposition TD for thosse 13 years there's nothing he could have done to help avoid the current crisis.

I don't think he can get off the hook that easily. A strong opposition and a well focussed media could have highlighted the inevitable problems (loose credit, inept bankers and lax regulation) we largely failed to foresee.

FG, Labour and the Media are not outsiders, they are part of the establishment.

FF are more culpable than anyone else for the crisis we find ourselves in, but I'd feel better about our options for a change of government if the others had had strong convictions on the issues that have brought us to our knees.
 
Remember the way he gutted the bankers during the non resident account investigation. And took great pleasure in it. Don't like him at all.
 
I'm not a fan of Rabbitte, but I was impressed with him doing this.

The audience member was giving the usual "politicians from all parties are all the same and all to blame......" rant and Rabbitte pulled him up on this point. I agree with him. Our political system is such that the opposition have zero say or influence in anything. Government just presses ahead with its plans regardless of the views of others. Rabbitte is correct. The opposition cannot blamed for the mess.

Sometimes I think some of the "politicians are all the same...." rants we see on TV are just plants in the audience from the government parties - its in their interests that they give the impression that blame lies with all parties, not just the one in power.
 
DerKaiser said:
Anyone see this last night?

Can't imagine it will win him too many friends.

I'd imagine he should be playing it cool and biding his time rather than losing his patience. Also, 13 years in opposition is not something I'd be highlighting on my CV if I was looking to get into power.

He also seemed to imply that as an opposition TD for thosse 13 years there's nothing he could have done to help avoid the current crisis.

I don't think he can get off the hook that easily. A strong opposition and a well focussed media could have highlighted the inevitable problems (loose credit, inept bankers and lax regulation) we largely failed to foresee.

FG, Labour and the Media are not outsiders, they are part of the establishment.

FF are more culpable than anyone else for the crisis we find ourselves in, but I'd feel better about our options for a change of government if the others had had strong convictions on the issues that have brought us to our knees.
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I'm not sure I would go as far as assigning blame to them, but I firmly believe that we would be in exactly the same position had we had a Labour or FG government for the last 13 years. Whenever the current government intervened in the market over the last 10+ years, all the opposition did was to say that it wasn't enough or came too late.

csirl said:
Our political system is such that the opposition have zero say or influence in anything. Government just presses ahead with its plans regardless of the views of others. Rabbitte is correct. The opposition cannot blamed for the mess.
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This is a problem of democracy, i.e. majority rule. Giving governments too much power over our lives exacerbates this. When the majority of voters decide who will govern, and those politicians are then not legally restricted from interfering with the freedoms of citizens, then you will always end up with situations where large groups of people feel they are being let down or not represented. Nothing opposition can do about this, except point out the wrongs.
And in Ireland's case I never heard an opposition politician raise the issue that government was overstepping its roles and responsibilities.
 
Chris said:
This is a problem of democracy, i.e. majority rule. Giving governments too much power over our lives exacerbates this. When the majority of voters decide who will govern, and those politicians are then not legally restricted from interfering with the freedoms of citizens, then you will always end up with situations where large groups of people feel they are being let down or not represented. Nothing opposition can do about this, except point out the wrongs.
And in Ireland's case I never heard an opposition politician raise the issue that government was overstepping its roles and responsibilities.
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Hear hear. If anything this whole mess should teach us that we need less government. They are, in general, well meaning muppets most of them. Would you put any of them, from any party, in charge of your business? Or your school or hospital for that matter? And if you would, tell us which ones, and what business.
 
shnaek said:
Hear hear. If anything this whole mess should teach us that we need less government. They are, in general, well meaning muppets most of them. Would you put any of them, from any party, in charge of your business? Or your school or hospital for that matter? And if you would, tell us which ones, and what business.
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I'm starting to come to the conclusion that you get muppets at the top of most large organisations, public and private.
 
DerKaiser said:
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that you get muppets at the top of most large organisations, public and private.
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That is true, but in the case of the majority of private ones, it is not the taxpayer who is coughing up the bill.
 
and the best part of his riposte against the audience member....yer man was a paid up, card carrying labour party devotee!!
That made it all the more bizarre from my point of view
 
shnaek said:
Would you put any of them, from any party, in charge of your business? Or your school or hospital for that matter? And if you would, tell us which ones, and what business.
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Great question, really great.
 
Chris said:
That is true, but in the case of the majority of private ones, it is not the taxpayer who is coughing up the bill.
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Yes, but the extent of the screw-up caused by the minority (e.g. the banks) are placing a significant draw on the taxpayers that makes the quality of the government almost a side issue.

I'd agree that the backgrounds of the various politicians don't make them fit for ministerial office. Here, ministeries are seen as the culmination of a career in politics, almost as a reward for time served. I'd prefer a system, such as exists in various scandinavian countries, whereby a department is led by an unelected expert in the relevant field. It seeks to ensure that the person in charge understands the policies they're seeking to implement. The current notion that any TD is a skilled generalist who can easily navigate between ministries is seriously flawed.

And as for the audience member, he deserved anything he got. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and hurl abuse while avoiding the option of getting involved. If the private sector is such a source of expertise, I wish they'd put themselves forward.
 
Staples said:
Yes, but the extent of the screw-up caused by the minority (e.g. the banks) are placing a significant draw on the taxpayers that makes the quality of the government almost a side issue.
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The government have made the greater screwup. Their regulators failed (central bank, office of the regulator, department of finance) and all those people are still in their jobs, apart from the regulator himself who retired with a massive golden handshake. These were supposed to be our people on the ground. You can't blame the banks for trying to make money -that's what they do. What our people should have done was make sure that they didn't do so recklessly - a task they failed in so majestically that they should all be sacked.

And it is our government who are spending 20bn more than we can afford year on year - this is an ongoing cost which is going to have to be addressed, and it is much more serious than the banking issue, which is a once off amount.

Now, just in case you think I am a fan of the banks - they should have been let fail, as they would have been if we were in a true capitalist system. They behaved recklessly, they should fall. To see the same people still running these institutions is painfully depressing.
 
The opposition failed to come up with any policies with regard to the house price frenzy.

All they wanted was more spending.
 
cork said:
All they wanted was more spending.
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That's one of the flaws of our democracy - everyone wants more spending, but nobody wants to pay for it! Anyone who wants more spending should put themselves forward for tax increases, and those of us who want less spending should put ourselves forward for tax reductions :)
 
Oppositions are always populist. They say what they think people want to hear in order to get into power.
 
Staples said:
Yes, but the extent of the screw-up caused by the minority (e.g. the banks) are placing a significant draw on the taxpayers that makes the quality of the government almost a side issue.
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The main blame for the financial crisis lies with governments and their central banks, not the commercial banks. They merely did what they have always done, i.e. make money out of lending money. But the amount of money they lent and the interest rate charged are both dictated by central banks. Now the commercial banks messed up with their business practices, but the fact that they are still operational and the taxpayer is liable is also a fault of government. Bailing out banks was the biggest mistake of all.

Staples said:
I'd agree that the backgrounds of the various politicians don't make them fit for ministerial office. Here, ministeries are seen as the culmination of a career in politics, almost as a reward for time served. I'd prefer a system, such as exists in various scandinavian countries, whereby a department is led by an unelected expert in the relevant field. It seeks to ensure that the person in charge understands the policies they're seeking to implement. The current notion that any TD is a skilled generalist who can easily navigate between ministries is seriously flawed.
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On the face of it it sounds like a good idea, but this assumes that the right person is put at the head of department. This person would also have hos/her own biases and agendas. I think that restricting what governments are allowed to interfere with is the best approach. Given the amount of responsibilities and departments created over the years, not one voter actually knows what they are voting for.

Purple said:
Oppositions are always populist. They say what they think people want to hear in order to get into power.
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Very good point. And precisely because politicians cannot be trusted, their powers, once in government, need to be legally restrained.
 
Did anyone notice the house prices compared to averag salaries?

Opposition, media, central bank, commercial banks, developers, govt all are responsible.

Nobody shouted "stop".
 
Thought it was a good response.

Some people think they're martyrs because they're bothering to set up a business. They also think the government should hand them everything on a plate.
 
shanegl said:
Some people think they're martyrs because they're bothering to set up a business. They also think the government should hand them everything on a plate.
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Agreed. You get a lot of people on these shows droning on about how they started a business and "haven't got a penny" from the Government.

They seem to assume they should be courted like someone who discovered a cure for aids.
 
List after list of the people who used the Ansbacher accounts, False off shores addresses to evade DIRT etc, Tax dodgers are the self employed, small busines people, shop keepers farmers etc.

The PAYE employeee just has to take what is given and cough up every week to the tax man

Many of these self employed builders etc were the same ones who treated their customers badly during the boom
 
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