This Pope has misplaced his moral compass

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onq

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On the one hand he views the ordination of women priest as being on a level with paedophilia - a lesser level from my reading of the text below.

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Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, underscored how the ordination of women is "a crime against sacraments," while paedophilia should be considered a "crime against morals" and both would fall under the jurisdiction of the CDF.

The organisation, once known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, was previously headed by the current Pope when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.
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On the other, he avoids making mandatory the reporting to the police of sex abuse within the church.

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"Clergy sex crimes must be reported to police and the Vatican must make this a binding policy that is uniformly enforced," said David Clohessy, of The Survivors Network for those Abused by Priests.
"Today's action doesn't do that."(©Daily Telegraph London)
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I have lost any shred of respect I ever had for Ratzinger.
Somebody needs to denounce his utter, gross, egregious slander of women as a matter of urgency.

Either this man is not infallible ex cathedra on this issue, being held to be simply, utterly and totally wrong on this point of canon law.
Or, if he can show that his interpretation of male-written church doctrine and dogma is correct, then said doctrine and dogma needs to be re-written.

ONQ.
 
All I can say about that is that I am shocked and horrified, but I am not surprised. Any further comment would be superfluous.
 
People Power works. Stay away and stop donating money. Let's face it, This post will be deleted if not edited immediately knew a lot but I have never heard of his mentioning STANDING ORDERS or DIRECT DEBITS.
 
Not just this Pope, previous Popes and the hierarchy for many many years have been wrecking the CC.
 
Why is anyone surprised, stunned shocked or horrified? This is par for the course for these people.
 
Purple said:
Why is anyone surprised, stunned shocked or horrified? This is par for the course for these people.
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Agree with this. The gays have had years of this nonsense from the Vatican, but as they have had the continuing audacity to question Benny's edicts, the Vatican is shifting its attention elsewhere. Anything to deflect attention from the appalling abuse crimes. That said, I have to say even this edict is a little bit out there for the Vatican. In a weird way it's now actually becoming a bit sad at just how far off the map they have gone. As regards the reaction, I guess that it is now directed at 50% of the population (rather than just the 20 million or so gay people on the planet) it's bound to rise a few more people's anger.
 
onq said:
Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, underscored how the ordination of women is "a crime against sacraments," while paedophilia should be considered a "crime against morals" and both would fall under the jurisdiction of the CDF.
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I don't see what people can find surprising about the above statement. It seems quite straight forward. Christians who are unhappy with the Catholic Church's stance on women priests are free to move to another Church. The feigned indignation of some committed atheists is interesting. Why do these people get vexed at utterings from the Catholic Church. Perhaps Church bashing is simply self-satisfying.
 
As an atheist, am I not allowed to bash corruption, hypocricy and law breaking?
 
michaelm said:
I don't see what people can find surprising about the above statement. It seems quite straight forward. Christians who are unhappy with the Catholic Church's stance on women priests are free to move to another Church. The feigned indignation of some committed atheists is interesting. Why do these people get vexed at utterings from the Catholic Church. Perhaps Church bashing is simply self-satisfying.
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have to say i agree with this, everyone has a right to join any religion they want..or none at all. if you dont like the way the catholic church is run, simply google religion,and find one that suits your requriments!
 
michaelm said:
Perhaps Church bashing is simply self-satisfying.
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perhaps it desrves to be bashed and probably alot worse because of the actions, in-actions and hypocrasy of many within it.
Just ask yourself why are people bashing the church??

as a side note: that pope is one evil looking .....
 
dockingtrade said:
perhaps it desrves to be bashed and probably alot worse because of the actions, in-actions and hypocrasy of many within it.
Just ask yourself why are people bashing the church??

as a side note: that pope is one evil looking .....
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Oh yeah, definitely.
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If Hollywood wanted an 'antichrist-looking' person, he's the perfect choice !!!
 
starlite68 said:
have to say i agree with this, everyone has a right to join any religion they want..or none at all. if you dont like the way the catholic church is run, simply google religion,and find one that suits your requriments!
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I agree with that as well. I also agree that we all have the right to free speech and that includes the right to point out the flaws of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
starlite68 said:
have to say i agree with this, everyone has a right to join any religion they want..or none at all. if you dont like the way the catholic church is run, simply google religion,and find one that suits your requriments!
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Hmmm, not entirely sure whether googling religion is how you go about things. Most of us were baptised as children and had to do the confirmation and communion too. So it appears to be an "opt out" system at some stage when you're older.

But then when the Catholic Church still has an influence on State Policy, education and health in this country over and above any other religion, it gives me the right to comment on their policies. Especially when they are contray to equality legislation and especially when they afford greater protection to the institution over and above any other employer. (You can google equality if you want).

The church cannot have it both ways, it cannot tell me to keep my nose out because I'm an atheist when it continues to stick its nose into my affairs through influencing state policy based on its own agenda.

Do we really want people who think that having female priests is the same offence as hiding child abusers (you can google the Ferns Report or The Ryan Commission if you wish) having any say whatsoever in how this country should be or in the education of our children or in the "morals and ethics" committees of hospitals?

It's just not that easy to say to atheists or other religions to keep their noses out when this church continues to have an influence on me and my family.
 
A right to free speech is of paramount importance, indeed it should be put into the constitution. It usually isn't onerous to distil the considered opinion in a given discussion. I think that the influence that the Church has over peoples lives today is grossly overstated, negligible even.

No doubt the CC is antiquated and not exactly a slick PR machine but I don't see it as sinister or evil. I wonder what people expect; that the Church, for the sake of modernity, change their core beliefs? Women priests, a thumbs up for homosexuality, and sure why not throw in abortions for all.
 
Latrade said:
But then when the Catholic Church still has an influence on State Policy, education and health in this country over and above any other religion, it gives me the right to comment on their policies.



It's just not that easy to say to atheists or other religions to keep their noses out when this church continues to have an influence on me and my family.
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I was talking to one of my colleagues last week about primary schools. She was telling me that the amount of time children spend preparing for the communion and confirmation in those years was crazy. They spend a huge amount of time learning hymns and prayers , on school time.
Maybe communion/confirmation prep should be outside of school hours as an optional extra for practising RC's.
 
michaelm said:
A right to free speech is of paramount importance, indeed it should be put into the constitution. It usually isn't onerous to distil the considered opinion in a given discussion. I think that the influence that the Church has over peoples lives today is grossly overstated, negligible even.

No doubt the CC is antiquated and not exactly a slick PR machine but I don't see it as sinister or evil. I wonder what people expect; that the Church, for the sake of modernity, change their core beliefs? Women priests, a thumbs up for homosexuality, and sure why not throw in abortions for all.
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if they are so much against homosexuality how come they protected homosexual child rapists!

michaelm said:
sinister or evil.
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Concealing, covering up, ignoring child rape by so so many is sinister and is pure evil
 
michaelm said:
A right to free speech is of paramount importance, indeed it should be put into the constitution. It usually isn't onerous to distil the considered opinion in a given discussion. I think that the influence that the Church has over peoples lives today is grossly overstated, negligible even.

No doubt the CC is antiquated and not exactly a slick PR machine but I don't see it as sinister or evil. I wonder what people expect; that the Church, for the sake of modernity, change their core beliefs? Women priests, a thumbs up for homosexuality, and sure why not throw in abortions for all.
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But then it would be fine if the consitution wasn't heavily influenced to begin with by the Catholic Faith. So on that basis it does affect my life and it does affect the lives of everyone. And they fight to retain those principles, so again that is the Church actively involved in influencing a state and state policy.

It's far from negligable as I now run the risk of a criminal charge for blasphemy. That was only introduced because of Church influence. So it's all well and good people suggesting googling new faiths or tolerating atheism, but you don't run the risk of a personal prosecution for drawing attention to hypocrasy and immorality in those official views. Thanks. For. That. We'll hide those that abused children and while we're at it, we'll make it nice and illegal for you to comment on the full nature and extent of our actions and immorality. Negligable influence indeed.

The problem is we shouldn't need a thumbs up from the Church for homosexuality, it shouldn't be down to them as to whether or not all people have an equal footing and an equal access to services. Whether they approve or disapprove should be of no relevance.

And I'm not even going to comment on the abortion issue, the standard card thown out whenever these discussions get under way. Abortion is an moral issue that is independent of faith.

If in public the pope is going to state that women priests are as grevious a sin as hiding child abusers, then that's going to get comments. Such a statement is wholly alien and abhorent to me and many others, it was stated publically, it's going to be reacted to. It doesn't matter who makes such a ridiculous statement, if they make it in public, people will comment. And if people are going to defend that statement in public, then people are going to comment.
 
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