Disability Group Salaries

Sunny

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This is pretty disturbing. Whatever about the salaries paid to their executives, why does a Country the size of Ireland have over 200 groups providing services to the disabled?

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This is pretty disturbing. Whatever about the salaries paid to their executives, why does a Country the size of Ireland have over 200 groups providing services to the disabled?

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Agreed, but it's a bit rich coming from Harney when the executives of these groups use the same salary benchmarking as TDs.
 
Agreed, but it's a bit rich coming from Harney when the executives of these groups use the same salary benchmarking as TDs.

Amazing how many roles seem to be benchmarked to high up public sector roles. Don't trade unions do the same?
 
Amazing how many roles seem to be benchmarked to high up public sector roles. Don't trade unions do the same?

For their senior roles, but so do IBEC, CIF, and basically any other similar service.

I do have an issue with charities, especially as there's no way of finding out what proportion of a donation goes on salaries, especially senior executives. But in this case it's the person complaining of salaries that devalues this statement. Let's not forget she justified the huge pay for the Chief of the HSE even though it was higher than the UK equivallent and of course how the TDs benchmark their salaries.
 
Yeah the salaries are a side issue. She shouldn't have brought it in. I just can't see how having 200 organisations delivering services to the disabled is the most efficient for either the person they are trying to help or from a funding prespective as they all end up in competition with each other.
 
... why does a Country the size of Ireland have over 200 groups providing services to the disabled? ...
Simple. A lack of willingnes to develop joined up thinking on the part of successive Governments and of ministers for health, finance and education, the lack of delivery of vital services under the old County Council / Health Board Model and Harney Drumm & Co continuing to feather their own nests and ignore the need for these services, their methods of delivery and financing.

I took an active vocal and visible part in last weeks protests and I'm delighted to hear of the reversal of the decision in relation to certain services in Limerick, for example.

The real disgrace is not what people in the voluntary sector dealing directly with disability are paid, but the fact that Drumm Harney and Co continue to have huge pension pots accumulating, draw down enormous salaries, expenses, bonuses and company cars and do none of the work being delivered by the voluntary sector to their clients.

Ask Drumm Harney & Co why these little (in comparison to the HSE) organisations are needed and why the HSE has failed the recipients of the services provided by the voluntary sector organisations and their volunteers. I happen to be just one low-level volunteer.
 
+1 Mathepac.

One gripe I have is the lack of planning and strategy in some of these organisations where the first thing that happens with cuts are jobs and services. I'm sure there are plenty of other areas where cuts and efficiencies could be made without affecting services, but the management always take the easy route and pull back on services.

I guess that gets them headlines and I guess that gets them sympathy as they can blame the government. In some of the stuff Harney has said she's right, that there is no need to cut services, cut inefficiency.

However, to counter that, most of these organisations don't have the experience or the knowledge to perform such a review and make recommendations. This should be a service provided in terms of assistance and advice.

It's all well and good cutting funding where we need to, but if it is the case that these can be implemented without a loss of service, then help them to achieve that, don't leave them in the cold. To me the cost of helping to review practices and policies would be more than offset by the savings.
 
... I just can't see how having 200 organisations delivering services to the disabled is the most efficient for either the person they are trying to help or from a funding prespective as they all end up in competition with each other.
It probably isn't. What you'll find is that in different although maybe neighbouring Health Board Areas, different voluntary organisations deliver broadly the same services. Because Volunteer A was in Health Board Area A, Health Board Area B would not deal with them (there are exceptiions), so a different voluntary organisation started in Health Board Area B. You are correct, it is not efficient and does lead for competition for resources and a degree of duplication, but that was the Health Board way and it hasn't changed.

The idea was to keep the voluntary organisations small and local, making them a tiny part of the health, finance or education budgets and to reduce their sphere of influence with central government, thereby inflating the importance of the Health Boards themselves, while reducing any responsibility the Health Boards might have had (the same reason Harney had for creating the HSE).

Have a look at the Community Drugs Initiatives & Schemes overseen by Drumm Harney & Co, which, through no fault of their own, are different to the HSE Addiction Services and IMHO a huge unnecessary waste of money because of duplication and the lack of an overall vision. They are run on precisely the same old-fashioned Health Board model for precisely the same reasons.
 
No-one doubts the good work done by these organisations as I have experiences with some but you can't blame the HSE alone if an organisation has six region centres in Galway, Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Ennis with the head of each earning between €90-113k. They are not regional centres.
The sector needs reform and consolidation as they are all chasing the same money either from the State or from private fundraising. The problem is that if the HSE started going down that road, you would have public uproar like we did when they introduced the cancer strategy.
 
It probably isn't. What you'll find is that in different although maybe neighbouring Health Board Areas, different voluntary organisations deliver broadly the same services. Because Volunteer A was in Health Board Area A, Health Board Area B would not deal with them (there are exceptiions), so a different voluntary organisation started in Health Board Area B. You are correct, it is not efficient and does lead for competition for resources and a degree of duplication, but that was the Health Board way and it hasn't changed.

The idea was to keep the voluntary organisations small and local, making them a tiny part of the health, finance or education budgets and to reduce their sphere of influence with central government, thereby inflating the importance of the Health Boards themselves, while reducing any responsibility the Health Boards might have had (the same reason Harney had for creating the HSE).

Have a look at the Community Drugs Initiatives & Schemes overseen by Drumm Harney & Co, which, through no fault of their own, are different to the HSE Addiction Services and IMHO a huge unnecessary waste of money. They are run on precisely the same old-fashioned Health Board model for precisely the same reasons.

Fair enough. I just think as Latrade said there are inefficiencies that can be tackled in the sector but the first threat made by management is that we will cut services and blame the HSE.
 
... One gripe I have is the lack of planning and strategy in some of these organisations where the first thing that happens with cuts are jobs and services. I'm sure there are plenty of other areas where cuts and efficiencies could be made without affecting services, but the management always take the easy route and pull back on services...
I think you'll find the thinking permeates the Dept of Health & Children and the HSE. In order to cut costs, cut services; close wards, reduce beds, don't hire medics, techs or nurses.

... I guess that gets them headlines and I guess that gets them sympathy as they can blame the government. In some of the stuff Harney has said she's right, that there is no need to cut services, cut inefficiency. ...
Yes it grabs headlines and works some of the time. If the old tricks work, why learn new ones if the game doesn't change?

With regard to Harney, well "Mary, Mary quite contrary, How does your garden grow?"
... However, to counter that, most of these organisations don't have the experience or the knowledge to perform such a review and make recommendations. This should be a service provided in terms of assistance and advice.

It's all well and good cutting funding where we need to, but if it is the case that these can be implemented without a loss of service, then help them to achieve that, don't leave them in the cold. To me the cost of helping to review practices and policies would be more than offset by the savings.
I've been involved at various levels and in various roles for about 20 years. Based on the redesign of organisations, more effective and efficient delivery of services to a broader client-base, the creation of shared services across organisations, those outfits that I know are lean, mean fighting machines. If the HSE want to help let them come down from their ivory tower and learn from the people who have actually done the work. Please let them stop weeing out the windows of the ivory tower and trying to convince the people below that it's raining. In terms of cutting costs while improving services few of these organisations have anything to learn from the single most bloated bureaucracy in the State.
 
I don't think we're disagreeing. The HSE are among the worst culprits of cuts in funding meaning cuts in service rather than through other means. The HSE is ripe for learning about shared services and other features.

I suppose the point was that despite what these organisations are saying, cuts in funding doesn't mean they have to cut services (or at least not without review of operations). It's their decision to cut the service, but it helps them to deflect that back onto the HSE.
 
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