starlite68
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so is this going be our new minimum wage 3 euro an hour!
the low wage model just will not work in this county.
Did you hear the news . . . the Recession is over
- Thread starter Leper
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the low wage model just will not work in this county.
Presumably you've run this past your employer as well and urged him to cut your wages in the interest of producing a cheaper product for the market ?
Sure everyone is overpaid but me!!!! Isn't that what we all think!
Is the mimimum wage too high?
People on the mimimum wage often work hard and have unsocial hours eg. bar work
starlite68
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we are talking 3 euro now purple.....not bad eah....soon we will be able to buy a loaf of bread for sixpence and a gallon of petrol for a shilling!
I think you're right, this country is consuming itself from the inside. Everything has to come down or we will be ruined. Will need a very strong govt to help us out of this mess.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0610/rent.html
Government is trumpeting that it is reducing rent allowance. A single parent or a childless couple can now get only €930 per month. You can now rent a 3-bed semi in a reasonable area of Dublin at this price. Surely these rates are far too high? Wouldnt a 2 bed apartment be enough for these people?
Government is trumpeting that it is reducing rent allowance. A single parent or a childless couple can now get only €930 per month. You can now rent a 3-bed semi in a reasonable area of Dublin at this price. Surely these rates are far too high? Wouldnt a 2 bed apartment be enough for these people?
we are talking 3 euro now purple.....not bad eah....soon we will be able to buy a loaf of bread for sixpence and a gallon of petrol for a shilling!
Why would anyone work for €3 when the dole pays more than that?
starlite68
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but i thought you were in favour of cutting the dole.......problem solved!
T
tenchi-fan
Guest
I think Aldi actually have a higher starting wage than tesco!
How can you expect Tesco staff to take a pay cut when during the day have their customers are wearing pajamas and deciding what ready meal to bring home to their kids?
If welfare was cut tesco would be forced to cut their prices to cater for the fact a lot of people have less money. They could also pay their staff less because they're not competing with social welfare. Then they could cut their prices further.
I am but it's more complex than that.
What's that got to do with what Tesco pay their staff?
The opposite of what we've had for the last 10 years? If we are not any better off in real terms after 10 years of wage and cost increases why does anyone think that we will be any worse off in real terms after a few years of price and wage cuts?
What do you mean by "the low wage model"?
Wages in an open economy have to be market driven. If they are too high businesses will not employ people as doing so will not generate a profit. If they are too low people will not take the job.
Yep. Why have a model? If there are companies out there who want to pay their employees €15k per annum and we have 400,000 on the dole why would we turn them away?
Because some muppet decided on a whim that Ireland would rather have people on social welfare than the opprtunity of a low paid job
Well considering the minimum wage is only about €15k a year, there is nothing to stop companies paying that.
I don't want to pick hairs on this one but if you want to pay someone for a 40 hour week here, it's €350 per week so it's a bit above €15k per year.
I'm trying to make a reasonable point that there's probably many people who'd willingly work for a 40 hour week for less than that i.e. €250pw or €300pw but we've effectively thumbed our noses at such employment.
But the problem is you can't convince the socialists of this. There's no comprehension that a lower wage might actually encourage more employers to hire people.
starlite68
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thats something we can agree on, its way way more complex.....if making ourselves a low wage economy would solve all our problems then ok fine, i dont believe it will,but apart from that what government is going to touch this with a barge pole?
The standard working week that salaries are based on is 35-37 hours per week.
There is no evidence that removing the minimum wage would lead to huge job creation. We can't compete on wages in most industries. If you removed the minimum wage, manufacturing would still get done in China and other low wage economies that we simply can't (and don't want to compete) with.
Most people on minimum wages jobs work in industries like catering, cleaning, hospitality and part-time workers. It is debatable that removing the minimum wage would lead to huge employment in these areas.
I am not arguing the minimum wage is not high. Probably is. And so is social welfare. But lowering or abolishing it is not the answer to unemployment by itself. There are many other factors.
I think there's evidence both ways!
[broken link removed]
One point I'd still make, though, is that we do continue to have manufacturing employment here despite not being able to compete with China on wages. This does not mean we will hold onto these jobs regardless of the wage, it simply means that non-wage factors such as language, education, etc are offsetting the wage disadvantage.
If we had a minimum wage of say €12k rather than €15k, is there not a stong possibility that this incremental change, coupled with our other advantages, might tip the balance in our favour?
starlite68
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probably....but if it didnt tip the balance where would we go from there....10k..8k..?
Wage levels are a red herring. At the moment they present the only negotiable issue for employers in their costs (albeit with a floor to how low you can go). There are other costs to doing business here that are not negotiable that need to be reduced and would make it even more attractive to do business here.
I honestly don't feel wages are that big a concern among a lot of the bigger employers. We often compare ourselves to the UK, but there is a difference, there is a reason in many cases why employers believe Ireland is a better place to do business: us.
It isn't just the corporation tax, it's the education levels. The papers will complain, every generation thinks it's too easy now to get good grades, etc, but among international employers more stock is put on the education system and qualifications here than elsewhere. We've a significant proportion of people going onto 3rd level education. The US does, but then still employers put more stock in the 3rd level here than US.
There's the language, there's the bridge between the US and Europe, all positives that mean they will pay more to get the right people and be in the right place.
But we're ignoring other issues, like energy costs, rental costs, local authority charges, waste costs, water costs, administration and regulatory costs. There's little we or an employer can do on them.
The ultimate point is we'll just keep going round in circles arguing over minimum wage and social welfare. Don't like social welfare levels? Get off it, get a job. Sorry to be sounding like some American Republican, but I'm not going to see a country go bankrupt because people have extended their cost and style of living to meet what they can claim in social welfare. There's a general minimum that should be able to account for safety and security, everything else is a luxury, if you want them, earn them and earn them honestly.
Same for minimum wage, if you're unhappy with the pay and the work, then you do what my mum did (and subsequently my sister after becoming a single parent) before there was a minimum wage, you work hard, you educate yourself and you get out the rut.
The reality check is that we're probably getting back to 2002-2004 levels. I don't remember us being to badly off then.
I honestly don't feel wages are that big a concern among a lot of the bigger employers. We often compare ourselves to the UK, but there is a difference, there is a reason in many cases why employers believe Ireland is a better place to do business: us.
It isn't just the corporation tax, it's the education levels. The papers will complain, every generation thinks it's too easy now to get good grades, etc, but among international employers more stock is put on the education system and qualifications here than elsewhere. We've a significant proportion of people going onto 3rd level education. The US does, but then still employers put more stock in the 3rd level here than US.
There's the language, there's the bridge between the US and Europe, all positives that mean they will pay more to get the right people and be in the right place.
But we're ignoring other issues, like energy costs, rental costs, local authority charges, waste costs, water costs, administration and regulatory costs. There's little we or an employer can do on them.
The ultimate point is we'll just keep going round in circles arguing over minimum wage and social welfare. Don't like social welfare levels? Get off it, get a job. Sorry to be sounding like some American Republican, but I'm not going to see a country go bankrupt because people have extended their cost and style of living to meet what they can claim in social welfare. There's a general minimum that should be able to account for safety and security, everything else is a luxury, if you want them, earn them and earn them honestly.
Same for minimum wage, if you're unhappy with the pay and the work, then you do what my mum did (and subsequently my sister after becoming a single parent) before there was a minimum wage, you work hard, you educate yourself and you get out the rut.
The reality check is that we're probably getting back to 2002-2004 levels. I don't remember us being to badly off then.