The Frontline - Social Welfare

M

MANTO

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Is it just me or did anyone else who watched the frontline last night feel like they were watching a repeat - seen and heard it all so many times!

We talk talk talk but dont actually do anything to make the government change the system. As said in other threads, its our system, but we dont bother to do anything to change it. Talk is cheap.
 
I couldn't agree more. The talk is endless. Just look at the schedule for Radio 1...
 
Didn't catch it, but have noticed the UK adverts regarding benefit fraud. Except they aren't calling it "fraud" any more, they call it "theft".

I agree this adds absolutely nothing to this thread, I just thought the change of word was interesting in their attempt to change the "acceptability" of benefit fraud in the public eye. I mean it was so successful with copyright theft and downloading music and films....
 
I watched it and to be fair both sides tend to raise good arguments, so its hard to come down in support of one or the other.

I appreciate that each case is probably different of course.

Although shocking to hear that a husband and wife with 2 kids (or was it 3?) are lifting nearly €40k annually. Thats some money for doing sweet FA, and I can see why many have no interest in working.
 
Because TALK and moan is what we do best even on chat forums!

When it comes to being pro-active, we are a disgrace, and as long as we tune into these programmes, they will air them, and the advertisers will advertise during the breaks, and the presenters will get paid (well in some cases), to host these talk shows that are just basically, talking shops!
 
RMCF said:
I watched it and to be fair both sides tend to raise good arguments, so its hard to come down in support of one or the other.

I appreciate that each case is probably different of course.

Although shocking to hear that a husband and wife with 2 kids (or was it 3?) are lifting nearly €40k annually. Thats some money for doing sweet FA, and I can see why many have no interest in working.
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Shocking or caring !
When will people get it into their heads - there are no jobs out there !
 
I love all these guys who say the unemployed should be cleaning out rivers, sweeping roads, painting homes of the sick. saving the harvest etc etc.

Suddenly, these guys become unemployed themselves and guess what - Their views change instantly.
 
Leper said:
I love all these guys who say the unemployed should be cleaning out rivers, sweeping roads, painting homes of the sick. saving the harvest etc etc.

Suddenly, these guys become unemployed themselves and guess what - Their views change instantly.
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That was my view while i was unemployed, i hate seeing places get run down because it always leads to a drop in social standards, I don't see how it could hurt to introduce some form of plan for even one day a week.
 
What I find interesting about these shows is the people on the side of the welfare folk (and many of the welfare folk) seem to expect the world to take care of them. As I watched the show I found myself shouting at the TV "go back to college and get an education!" or "set up a business!" or even "take responsiblity for your life!!".

It seems a lot of people never really mature and expect some sort of mammy to take care of them. I'm sorry, but that's not the way the world works. You have to make things happen for yourself. Expecting a handout and waiting for a handout will just result in failure.
 
UFC said:
It seems a lot of people never really mature and expect some sort of mammy to take care of them. I'm sorry, but that's not the way the world works. You have to make things happen for yourself. Expecting a handout and waiting for a handout will just result in failure.
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+1. I'm predominatly pinko in my beliefs, but on some matters I'm conservative with a lower case 'c'. One of those lower case c's is welfare is a hand up not a hand out.
 
UFC said:
What I find interesting about these shows is the people on the side of the welfare folk (and many of the welfare folk) seem to expect the world to take care of them. As I watched the show I found myself shouting at the TV "go back to college and get an education!" or "set up a business!" or even "take responsiblity for your life!!".

It seems a lot of people never really mature and expect some sort of mammy to take care of them. I'm sorry, but that's not the way the world works. You have to make things happen for yourself. Expecting a handout and waiting for a handout will just result in failure.
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In fairness going back to education is a long term committment and most would hope to be back to work any given week. Setting up a business is not for everyone and with well established businesses struggling and closing it isn't exactly the right time for novices to start taking risks with what little savings they have left. I'm sure most do take responsibility and in doing so have paid there stamps and contributed tax, so taking a general sweep at those on the dole doesn't really cover things accurately.
 
Well all I can say is I am a lifelong education person myself, and I run a business on the side. As a result of this I am very employable and have multiple income streams.

I have no special ability, so if I can do it anyone can do it.
 
The thing that tends to bug a lot of the 'anti-welfare' brigade is the fact that many seem to find the money for SkyTV and big plasma TVs, while many working people can't afford these luxuries.
 
The thing that stood out for me was the single mother who ranted away about the 'social' not being enough to cover communion/confirmation expenses etc. Why should the taxpayer be expected to foot the bill for this religious-related stuff? Then, when someone else in the audience made a general query about how much the fathers contribute, she replied by saying she didn't see how this was relevant and refused to discuss it, eh, hello?
Overall though, there are big problems in the system,namely the fact that the govt does not work hard enough to get people off the dependency.
 
I watched the show and found it very frustrating. All Pat Kenny did was hop from one person to another, asking them to voice the prepared piece they had on camera. There was no discussion or counter-arguing. The programme was unproductive as a debating forrum. The few salient points I heard were;

1. SW and FAS work at odds with each other. SW try to activate people but FAS don't 'report' those weho won't engage with them to SW so there are no sanctions.
2. Politicians interfere with the SW system by trying to get constituents benefits they are inherently not entitled to.
3. There is no incentive to climb above a minimum income and get out of the 'poverty trap'.
4. In recession times, SW-dependent people become targets as 'spongers'; the 30k still on the dole when we were importing workers were never held to task at the time, now we question teh motives of the 400k unemployed when there are no jobs.
 
Welfarite said:
I watched the show and found it very frustrating. All Pat Kenny did was hop from one person to another, asking them to voice the prepared piece they had on camera. There was no discussion or counter-arguing. The programme was unproductive as a debating forrum. The few salient points I heard were;

1. SW and FAS work at odds with each other. SW try to activate people but FAS don't 'report' those weho won't engage with them to SW so there are no sanctions.
2. Politicians interfere with the SW system by trying to get constituents benefits they are inherently not entitled to.
3. There is no incentive to climb above a minimum income and get out of the 'poverty trap'.
4. In recession times, SW-dependent people become targets as 'spongers'; the 30k still on the dole when we were importing workers were never held to task at the time, now we question teh motives of the 400k unemployed when there are no jobs.
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Was it not 130,000 ??
 
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