What is valid for deducting from Tenant's Deposit

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mkc

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Hi,

I have a tenant that has just moved out of the house i am renting. I have not returned the deposit as I wished to inspect the property first. I have found every bit of kitchen ware, delf, bins etc are gone. A chair is broken and beds ruined that there only fit for dump. Is this normal wear and tear in the renting world or am i entitled to deduct some monies from the deposit.

regards.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

hi ya
i would keep the deposit but first have a read through your lease to familiarise yourslef again with it so you can quote from it but the bottom line is that the place should be returned in pretty much the same condition that you let it to tenants inthe first place. normal wear and tear to me is to have to repaint every so often and having to clean it and replace floor covering now and then . taking stuf from the apt and nor replacing it is stealing and you should refer to your inventory when discussing this.ive gotten tough on deposits recently as my husband was giving people back deposits and it was taking me the guts of a week to clean the palce which is just not on. ive had all sorts of stuff done to apt as well for example carpets removed???and one tenant brought in a condenser dryer and absolutely destroyed the place with mildew...its empty at the mo cos the last guy gave me 3 days notice (verbally and not even in writing) and still wanted deposit back??? so it was a straight up no to that.then the usual threatning me with solicitors letters etc...its amazing what we landlords have to put up with.ive had tenants ring me to ask would i help pay arears of ESB bills in their names?!?!etc etc etc i could go on for days and now to cap it all its lying empty cos the market is so slow. dont expect the tenant to accept straight off the bat that you wont return deposit. maybe you could negotiate a partial return of deposit but in fairness sounds like they werent the cleanest....
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

You should be able to turn around and rent it. Any expenses required to do this, are what I'd take out of the deposit. So cleaning things broken, damage to the walls doors etc. Major items missing.

Exception to this, and I'd pay myself is general wear and tear would be if its a long time since its been painted and needs freshing up. Appliances that are old, or worn out for normal use. At the end of the day its a business so you expect some running costs.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

Just from a tenants point of view......

I have rented a number of places over the years. I have always left the house in spotless condition and have never broken anything or taken anything from the premises that are not mine. I understand the previous landlords point of view if stuff is broken and stuff has been taken - fair play withhold some or part of the deposit.

However, not once have I moved into a place that did not need to be thoroughly cleaned before I moved in. I don't know if the landlords had deducted cleaning costs from the previous tenants but if so, they sure weren't spent on cleaning the premises for the next tenant. Yet, when I move out of a place, I am expected to leave the place in perfect condition even though it wasn't when I moved in!!!

I have lived in one place for almost 4 years. In this time, no maintenance has been done by the landlord whatsover. Cream walls not painted in 4 years obviously get grubby, likewise for carpets etc - should my deposit be withheld just so the landlord can repaint the premises to let it out again?????
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

aircobra19 said:
At the end of the day its a business so you expect some running costs.
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Indeed,i would leave a house in a reasonably clean condition but you'd need'nt be expecting me to get the toothbrush out.If a landlord wants to get professional cleaners in thats his business.My last one tried to withold €200 for "cleaning" cos he couldn't find anything else wrong but very quickly handed it back when i said i'd take a case against him. I've nearly got to the stage where i want my deposit back, when i've handed over the keys and the place has been checked,because it's amazing the "issues" that can arise in the interim.Indeed as things tighten i can see this becoming worse.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

Its common sense you should return it to as close as its original state as possible within reason.

What you two are on about is a completely different scenerio and nothing to do with the OP question is it.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

I don't know if the landlords had deducted cleaning
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As far as I'm aware, deducting cleaning costs is illegal.

From Threshold:

[broken link removed]

The landlord may only keep some or all of the deposit to cover rent arrears or the costs of repairing any damage above normal wear and tear.
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If any tenants have their deposits wholly or partially withheld illegally, they should contact Threshold (http://www.threshold.ie/).

P.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Depoist

aircobra19 said:
Its common sense you should return it to as close as its original state as possible within reason.
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If I left places in as close to the original state as possible, I'm sure not many landlords would give me my deposit back!!!! Landlords seem to expect to rent out a place that isnt clean but still expect it to be spotless when you;re handing back the keys!!!

I'm not saying tenants should wreck places / take stuff that isn't theres when they leave but maybe they were just so annoyed with the landlord for some reason.

I've had an ex landlord ringing me abt 3 months after I left to ask me for money for fixing the washing machine as the new tenants were complaining it wasn;t working right.

I've had landlords that take more than a month to fix things like washing machines / showers etc (things you can't live without!)
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

Why are ye insiting on talking about a different subject (yourself) than the OP asked about. This thread is not about bad landlords its about bad tenants. Lots of cleaning is beyond normal wear and tear. Some people live like slobs, and leave a horrendous mess behind.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

mkc said:
Hi,

I have a tenant that has just moved out of the house i am renting. I have not returned the deposit as I wished to inspect the property first. I have found every bit of kitchen ware, delf, bins etc are gone. A chair is broken and beds ruined that there only fit for dump. Is this normal wear and tear in the renting world or am i entitled to deduct some monies from the deposit.

regards.
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Withhold an amount of money that is required to put the place, and you back where you should be-simple as that. That is what the deposit is for.

Renting in this country is becoming impossible-a lease is more binding on the landlord that the tenant, whereas it should be equally binding on both. For example a tenant can walk away from a lease for any reason -Landlords can only sever a lease for specific reasons. When leaving they think they can work off the deposit as last months rent, or fail to pay the last month, leave, and you are left with no deposit. If damage is done or expense is incurred you are out of pocket.

In any event, one month deposit is not sufficient to cover the capital risk that exists with any tenant using equipment and furniture on loan to them. In many countries in Europe its 3 months deposit, as is the notice period. Deposits do not go directly to the landlord-it goes into an interest bearing a/c -which neither party can access, until the tenancy ceases. Cleaning expenses are deductable from the deposit and that is proper order. While not wanting to offend people on here that are renting and decent caring people-many people think that because they do not own something they think they can abuse it, or treat it with less than the respect they would if they owned it.
As for notice -in Switzerland, you cannot vacate property in Aug or Dec, so notice must be given end of April or Aug, to leave End of July or Nov. These are traditionally months where its harder to rent due to hols-so the landlords are protected from valley periods at these times. When renting you are entitled to receive a spotlessly clean property and expected to return it as found. Marks to paint on walls are deductable from deposits-this is damage. The Swiss might have a reputation to be conservative-but their sytems are fair-and enforced equally so.
What hope of such fairness here? The PRtB are miles off the pace on such matters.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

I know in some places in europe you rent unfurnished and the place is repainted white before you leave. So everyone get the place in the same condition and theres none of this messing around with needing to industrially clean a place or finding damage like holes in walls behind bits of furniture strategically placed. Or leaving behing a pile of junk for someone else to dispose off.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

Luternau said:
When renting you are entitled to receive a spotlessly clean property and expected to return it as found.


Marks to paint on walls are deductable from deposits-this is damage.
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Show me one spotlessly clean property that is available on the rental market now! Landlords should only expect to get a spotlessly clean apartment back if it was that way in the first place!

Marks to paint on walls are wear and tear and should not be classed as damage (depending on the marks obviously!!!). Most rented accommodation in Ireland is painted standard cream/white. I defy any person, even in there own home, that can keep cream/white walls 100% mark free for a period of a lease!!! I'm talking the area around light switches etc etc - cream/ white walls get grubby!!! To get this repainted for the next tenant should not be deducted from the deposit, Likewise wear and tear on carpets / lino etc
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

What has any of that got to do with broken furniture and theft of propery?
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

clocon said:
the bottom line is that the place should be returned in pretty much the same condition that you let it to tenants in the first place.

Normal wear and tear to me is to have to repaint every so often and having to clean it and replace floor covering now and then.

Taking stuff from the apt and nor replacing it is stealing and you should refer to your inventory when discussing this.

Maybe you could negotiate a partial return of deposit but in fairness sounds like they werent the cleanest....
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Sounds fair to me

prince2008 said:
should my deposit be withheld just so the landlord can repaint the premises to let it out again?????
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No I think redecorating is above and beyond what would be considered wear and tear

oceanclub said:
As far as I'm aware, deducting cleaning costs is illegal.

From Threshold:

[broken link removed]
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I read the link you posted I don't see it written anywhere that it is illegal for a LL to charge a bad tenant for cleaning up after them.

The only think I saw was

8. When you leave, your landlord must promptly return your deposit. The landlord may only keep some or all of the deposit to cover rent arrears or the costs of repairing any damage above normal wear and tear.
This would say to me I could get a cleaning company in to clean the flat up to standard then charge the bad tenant for it.

mkc said:
Hi,

I have a tenant that has just moved out of the house i am renting. I have not returned the deposit as I wished to inspect the property first. I have found every bit of kitchen ware, delf, bins etc are gone. A chair is broken and beds ruined that there only fit for dump. Is this normal wear and tear in the renting world or am i entitled to deduct some monies from the deposit.

regards.
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If it was me I'd go out and buy new 'everything' that is destroyed or missing.

I would get a professional company in to clean the place.

Get a skip for the beds.

Then I'd go back to your bad tenants and charge them half the cost of the new stuff you've had to buy.

Charge them the full cost of the cleaning charge and the full cost of the skip.

Maybe they won't be bad tenants anymore.

SLF
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Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

OP - everything you have descriped is not normal wear and tear and you can deduct same from deposit. In case of any problems (tenant taking you to court for deposit) I'd take pictures of the damage.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

It's bizarre that they took the delph etc. Did they forget they gave you a deposit or something?

Replace what's broken and missing with similar quality stuff from the deposit.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

Find it strange that they took the delph. In relation to the bed - maybe its at the end of the road. Can't say I ever rented a house where I went 'Oh I'll really miss this bed'.

Must remind my landlord to get a new kettle and toaster in case he tries to get me to pay for it them I leave.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

It may be that the tenant was well aware that they would not be recieving any of the deposit back due to the damage done. Thhnej they decidied to take the delph, etc.. in a pathetic effort to "make up" the loss!
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

hi,

thanks for all the replies. I have taken photos of the different items broken and the empty presses. It took 4 people a combined 24 hours to clean the house just to determine what needed to be done. The whole house requires painting, even rooms which were painted 18 months ago. The walls were so dirty they had to be re-painted. To me this is above normal wear and tear. I do agree with posters posyting from a tenants point of view. Rooms which have not been painted in a few years and require freshing up is normal wear and tear.

I have decided to charge 50% of the cost for cleaning and painting and 100% for breakages and the cost of replacing missing items. I think this is fair.
 
Re: What is valid for deducting from Tenants Deposit

mkc said:
hi,

thanks for all the replies. I have taken photos of the different items broken and the empty presses. It took 4 people a combined 24 hours to clean the house just to determine what needed to be done. The whole house requires painting, even rooms which were painted 18 months ago. The walls were so dirty they had to be re-painted. To me this is above normal wear and tear. I do agree with posters posyting from a tenants point of view. Rooms which have not been painted in a few years and require freshing up is normal wear and tear.

I have decided to charge 50% of the cost for cleaning and painting and 100% for breakages and the cost of replacing missing items. I think this is fair.
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You will need receipts for all the work you have done other wise they could and will contest it.

You do have 1 problem regarding buying new stuff to replace old you are not replacing like for like, so they could argue you are doing better out of the deal.

At least if you do it 100% for cleaning and painting and skip with receipts.

Then 50% for all the new stuff and since all your stuff was old (not new) anyway, you get your property with a complete new fit out for half the price.

Best of all you can use the receipts against your tax.
 
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