Valuation on my affordable house (AH) at Phibblestown Wood, Ongar.

E

eimsRV

Registered User
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Hi all,

Just got the valuation on my affordable house back from the surveyor. The house is in Phibblestown Wood, Ongar.
He has valued it at 380K, whereas the council has valued it as 410K.
Anyone else got their valuations and challenged it with the council or the AHP?

Thanks,
Eims
 
Re: AH Phibblestown Wood - Market Value?

eimsRV said:
Hi all,

Just got the valuation on my affordable house back from the surveyor. The house is in Phibblestown Wood, Ongar.
He has valued it at 380K, whereas the council has valued it as 410K.
Anyone else got their valuations and challenged it with the council or the AHP?

Thanks,
Eims
Click to expand...

what comparables did he use? i was told the comparable was Castlegrange next door, smaller unit at €406k ............ The Ongar ones are bigger with back gardens ......
 
Re: AH Phibblestown Wood - Market Value?

Drapper,

I went to view the new Castlegrange development a few weeks ago - the 3 bed house with garden, lots of extra (but 180sq foot smaller) is priced at 390K for a similar unit. I'm waiting on the surveyor to call me back as when he went to value the house I hadn't mentioned the council market value!

Thanks,
Eimear
 
Re: AH Phibblestown Wood - Market Value?

Hello

I'm waiting on a valuation for a Fingal property. Fingal have told me that they will not reconsider valuations. The person I spoke to on the phone in Fingal didn't have a clue how the valuations were calculated but yet said they wouldn't seek a second valuation? I am buying under the initiative which is a little different to general affordable housing. Posts in other threads indicate that South Dublin are getting new valuations on some properties. Someone in Bank of Ireland told me that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown won't reduce even though the difference is €60k in some cases.

If enough people got low valuations and wrote to the director of housing surely they would have to look at it?

If your bank valuation is 40k less and you think that it is more accurate you will be tied to that property for at least 10 years to save yourself from making a loss.
 
Can somebody explain what these valuations are for? Are affordable houses not generally new builds so the value should be the purchase price? Or in this context are we talking about people selling on an calculating the clawback penalties or something?
 
ClubMan said:
Can somebody explain what these valuations are for? Are affordable houses not generally new builds so the value should be the purchase price? Or in this context are we talking about people selling on an calculating the clawback penalties or something?
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Hi Clubman

We're talking about the market value that the council are quoting us for affordable properties. No one is questioning the purchase price (eg: the price paid by the affordable house applicant). But we are questioning the market value upon which the clawback is calculated.

To quote literature received from Fingal County Council clawback is set at 'time of sale and are based on the sale price and market value price of the property'. However the market value seems to be calculated a long time in advance of 'time of sale' and is over valued in the current market.
Many people seem to be unaware of the implications of clawback on a property that is overvalued, while it is a deal braker for others who genuinely want to buy under the scheme - and that's without any interest in profiteering.
 
Cheeus said:
We're talking about the market value that the council are quoting us for affordable properties. Noone is questioning the purchase price (eg: the price paid by the affordable house applicant). But we are questioning the market value upon which the clawback is calculated.
Click to expand...
Thanks - that clarifies matters alright.
To quote literature received from Fingal County Council clawback is set at 'time of sale and are based on the sale price and market value price of the property'. However the market value seems to be calculated a long time in advance of 'time of sale' and is over valued in the current market.
Many people seem to be unaware of the implications of clawback on a property that is overvalued, while it is a deal braker for others who genuinely want to buy under the scheme - and that's without any interest in profiteering.
Click to expand...
What, if anything, does the relevant agreement say about arbitration on such issues?
 
ClubMan said:
Thanks - that clarifies matters alright.

What, if anything, does the relevant agreement say about arbitration on such issues?
Click to expand...

Holding deposit just supplied so no agreement yet. I'd be interested to hear what it says in the agreements of others - also do Councils differ?

Only very basic pre-application info is available.
 
I've requested examples of what happens if you sell an affordable property for less than the original market price from SDCC, they keep giving me examples of how clawback works where the property has risen in value. The Housing Act 2002 appears to protect people involved in the various schemes from losing money. Sorry don't know how to post a link so you'll have to google the act to get full context of quote below.

(d) Where the amount payable under paragraph (a) would reduce the proceeds of the sale (disregarding solicitor and estate agent's costs and fees) below the price actually paid, the amount payable shall be reduced to the extent necessary to avoid that result.

I dont fully understand the act, so not sure what protection this paragraph affords. I'm sure if your proceeding with the purchase your solicitor can advise.

I think many of the apartments available under the Initiative were purchased some time ago & are over valued in the current market.

I'm still trying to make a decision on the apartment I've been offered, was very excited at first but now not likely to proceed as I believe the apartment is overpriced (S23 in my case property so price difference is very sigificant) I'm waiting on a detailed rules of the scheme though before I make my final decision.

I do feel the various councils are being a little irresponsible in not highlighting what happens if the property drops in price but providing numerous example of how you benefit if it increases.

If I get more concrete info from SDCC I'll post it.


 
Cheesus

I think when they refer to 'time of sale' they are referring to price the builder is receiving (add back discount for bulk purchase), which the council agreed to. From what I understand builders get full price for Initiative properties as the initiative is part of the partnership agreement & seperate to Part V. Am open to correction on this.
 
321

Thanks for the info re housing act. Will quote it when writing for clarification. I think 'time of sale' is very unclear - councils have been known to lower clawback?

I'm also really frustrated with solicitors I've spoken to re affordable housing. They all seem willing to offer the 'all in package' but have little knowledge or intention of helping with issues like this that arise.
 
321 said:
Cheesus

I think when they refer to 'time of sale' they are referring to price the builder is receiving (add back discount for bulk purchase), which the council agreed to. .
Click to expand...

I've just looked at the 2002 act now. Market value is at date of sale to the purchaser not the council. From the act:

(b) The percentage referred to in paragraph (a) is calculated in accordance with the following formula—

Y × 100


Z​

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/where—
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/(i) Y is the difference between the market value of the house at the date of sale to the purchaser and the price actually paid, and
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/(ii) Z is the market value of the house at the date of sale to the purchaser.
 
Hi Cheeus

I'm finding the whole process a little frustrating, I've quoted the act on phone & in writing but can't get a clear response. On the phone I've been told twice that % clawback is the exact same even if the price drops, that would seem contrary to the Housing Act but staff on phones don't seem too familiar with the Act.

As I'm unlikely to proceed with the purchase I don't want to pay a solicitor to interpret the act for me.

Even if I don't go ahead I would like to highlight my concerns to someone 'higher up'. I feel like I'm being fobbed of by the council & that my concerns are not being taken seriously.

This is probably a new problem for the councils as in the past the pace of growth is property prices in Ireland would have cancelled out any valuation discrepencies in a short period of time. I feel by ignoring valuation discrepencies now they are putting people at risk of losing alot of money. I really believe the councils are being irresponsible by not looking at this issue.

I know its up to us to research our potential purchase the same way as a private purchaser does, but alot of people will make a decision based on the affordable price not the market price. This is fine if they stay in the property for a long time but as most on offer are 2 beds I think most would eventually try to trade up.

Sorry, went off on a bit of a rant there, hope its coherent.
 
321 said:
Hi Cheeus

I'm finding the whole process a little frustrating, I've quoted the act on phone & in writing but can't get a clear response. .
Click to expand...

Ooopppss, sorry about the post above.

321

I am so relieved to hear that someone else is really concerned about it. Have you received any detailed agreement/contract from the council yet? As Clubman indicated there might be more info in that. I know it's frustrating but I wouldn't throw away the chance to buy without doing all we can.

Until I receive my valuation I'm not sure if it's an issue for me, though I know it's definitely an issue for some. If it is I intend to write to the director of housing in Fingal, and failing that contact John Gormley (new TD for the environment). I think it's an even bigger deal than the recent issue of remortgaging and there's been a big deal made about that in the property sections.
 
We have also received a valuation of 380k for our house, now if the council is claiming its worth 420 fine. If the house was on the market for real it would sell for 420. Builders will always try and get the highest price possible. But also factor in when you sell your house it’s no longer a new house and is not worth the original amount paid unless the overall market rises

Another example is a new car worth 20000 but on day two of its life only worth 17000, new vs. second hand

At the end of the day we are happy and do plan to live there for 20 years plus and that was the whole idea of affordable housing. If you are thinking of the claw back and selling before 10 years maybe affordable housing does not suit your needs.
 
Cheeus said:
Holding deposit just supplied so no agreement yet. I'd be interested to hear what it says in the agreements of others - also do Councils differ?

Only very basic pre-application info is available.
Click to expand...
What does your solicitor advise?
 
If the property drops in value before the original valuation and you sell up, then the clawback balance will be reduced so as to negate this. The only way you can lose out is if the property's value drops below the value of your mortgage on the discounted price. So you'ld need a drop of more than 30% (or whatever discount you got) before you actually lost money. Don't mind what the staff at the council say, the legislation is very clear on this. Make sure you get legal advice to confirm this though.
 
ClubMan said:
What does your solicitor advise?
Click to expand...

Solicitors don't seem to advise anything on this. Have spoken to a few and they have just said they would go through contracts before signing.
Because affordable housing contracts are non negotiable solicitors seem to be a bit laid back about it all and many don't seem to know anything about clawback in a sliding house market.

The delay in getting clarification could be good though - I'm beginning to think that it's a better idea to save our ftb status to purchase a more permanent (bigger) property in a years time instead. To waste the stamp duty exemption on an affordable property that you might need to trade up for reasons of size doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense as affordable prices are going up and market prices seem to be coming down?? Anyone any thoughts?
 
Think you might be right Cheeus. It may be worth contacting some Estate Agents that deal with the area and find out what houses are closing for (as opposed to asking prices) or put in an offer at what you can afford and see where that gets you. At least by checking out this option you're going in with your eyes open and if it worked out you would have your home without any of the AH restrictions.
 
He has valued it at 380K, whereas the council has valued it as 410K.
Click to expand...

Hi going back to the origanal query - valuations on houses are often very conservative. In my personal experience, and we are currntly switching mortgages so the broker informed me to expect a very conservative valuation....
 
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