Using Leap Card for combined Luas and train journey - how many taps?

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Right Winger

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Had occasion to visit the big smoke recently and got the Luas from O'Connell St to Broombridge. Change to suburban rail at Broombridge (adjoining platforms) and continue to Coolmine. I had tapped on with my Leap Card at O'Connell St and tried to tap off at Coolmine, expecting to be charged the 90 minute transfer fare. But it seemed to think I was already tapped off and tapped me ON instead! I tapped again (to try to tap off) but it just kept saying "Already tagged on" or something like that.

So it appears that the Luas part of the system thought I was tapped on but the Rail part thought I was tapped off. Which meant (I think) that I got charged the maximum Luas fare plus the maximum rail fare because I couldn't tap off at Coolmine:eek: instead of a single 90 minute transfer fare.

According to my daughter who does this journey regularly, I should have tapped off at the Luas platform in Broombridge, walked a few steps across to the Rail platform and tapped on again, and finally tapped off at Coolmine.

Can this be right? Isn't the whole point of the Leap Card that the systems are integrated? And how is one supposed to know? Explanatory signage is non-existent.
 
Your daughter is right, you must tap off before switching transport modes. You even have to tap off when switching between Green and Red Luas lines.

It's the same in many other transport systems, e.g. London Underground (tube) you tap when switching to the Overground.

Part of the reason is so they have accurate usage data.

Could do with better signage.
 
arbitron said:
Your daughter is right, you must tap off before switching transport modes.
Click to expand...
You don't tap off when alighting from a bus though.
about.leapcard.ie

TFI 90 Minute Fare - Leap Card

You can use the TFI network around Dublin for 90 Minutes with your TFI Leap Card, for just €2 for adults, €1 for young adults (19-25) or students, and 65 cent for children. TFI 90 applies to most journeys in the Dublin area whether you are using multiple services during 90 minutes or simply...
about.leapcard.ie
In order to have a valid ticket to travel you must:
  • touch on before each bus journey
  • touch on before and touch off after each rail and tram journey
Click to expand...
 
Thanks @arbitron - I'll know better in future. To add to the general inconsistency, it also appears that you don't tag off when exiting a bus, even though buses are also covered by the 90 minute principle.

Crazy though that thing about switching between the green and red lines. And you say that's a feature, not a bug! Amazing :rolleyes:
 
Right Winger said:
Thanks @arbitron - I'll know better in future. To add to the general inconsistency, it also appears that you don't tag off when exiting a bus, even though buses are also covered by the 90 minute principle.
Click to expand...
Correct. I agree that it's not exactly clear/consistent.
In fact, when using a bus if you don't tag on at the driver's cabin and tell them where you're going then I believe that you'll be charged the maximum bus fare for the route.
Or maybe that's changed in recent years?
 
Buses are different because you tell the driver the stages you want and they register the info that way, so they don't need you to tap off.

If you tap on the Leap machine on the right side (where people use bus passes, weekly tickets, etc.) with your regular Leap card then you are charged the maximum fare, which is for anything beyond 13 stages, a fairly long journey.
 
Yet another inconsistency is when switching between Commuter Rail and DART (technically separate services so should do the tap-off-on thing when switching at Connolly.) Yet to do this, you'd have to exit through the card-operated barriers, turn right around, operate the barrier again and retrace your steps, switch platforms and get on the DART. Surely not. Again, there's no signage and the online guidance is inconsistent and unclear. How are infrequent users and tourists supposed to figure it out?
 
arbitron said:
Buses are different because you tell the driver the stages you want and they register the info that way, so they don't need you to tap off.

If you tap on the Leap machine on the right side (where people use bus passes, weekly tickets, etc.) with your regular Leap card then you are charged the maximum fare, which is for anything beyond 13 stages, a fairly long journey.
Click to expand...
Leap card is 2 euro for 90 minute fare - that's what you'll be charged if you use the validator on the right hand side. For a short ride you ask the driver and he'll charge you you 1.30 on your leap card. https://about.leapcard.ie/dublin-bus
 
Right Winger said:
Yet another inconsistency is when switching between Commuter Rail and DART (technically separate services so should do the tap-off-on thing when switching at Connolly.) Yet to do this, you'd have to exit through the card-operated barriers, turn right around, operate the barrier again and retrace your steps, switch platforms and get on the DART. Surely not. Again, there's no signage and the online guidance is inconsistent and unclear. How are infrequent users and tourists supposed to figure it out?
Click to expand...
I agree. There needs to be an information campaign to inform people how to navigate this process and signage at stations. There also needs to be more tap on/off machines so you don't have the exit the platform as described. I have seen queues to tap off/on at Broombridge while the luas departed and passengers had to wait for the next one.
 
Far be it from me to quote Greenpeace approvingly but the Irish Times carries a report today saying that:
"Dublin has been ranked worst for public transport among 30 European capital cities by Greenpeace, based on affordability and simplicity for users in purchasing tickets."

www.irishtimes.com

Dublin ranked worst for public transport in Europe due to price and ways to buy tickets

Call for Europe-wide lower price tickets to address climate and energy crises
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

Just a thought for the Greenpeace/Green lobby in general: wouldn't it be better to fix the simple things that public transport is getting wrong before inflicting pain and misery on motorists as a deliberate tactic to reduce car use. Flies, honey, vinegar....
 
My peak Dublin Bus years were two decades ago and I've been happy to have it out of my life ever since, the anti-customer attitude has always been strong.

Ticketing has got a lot simpler in fairness both in terms of structure and the introduction of Leap cards.

The final step should really be an end to any kind of pay-the-driver, barriers, and queues to tag on that slow things down.

I'd rather have a faster network and see them hire 200 more revenue protection officers and prosecute fare evasion seriously.

I'm not a very price-sensitive user at all - I just want a fast service with good connections.
 
There is a daily cap in place as well, so once you've hit 5.60 on the Luas in terms of fares, you shouldn't be charged any more and 8.00 for multi mode transport.

NTA are supposed to be awarding a tender for what they call next generation ticketing in the next few months, that will allow the use of debit and credit cards instead of Leap or cash but it is a massive project to role out.
 
jdwex said:
Leap card is 2 euro for 90 minute fare - that's what you'll be charged if you use the validator on the right hand side. For a short ride you ask the driver and he'll charge you you 1.30 on your leap card. https://about.leapcard.ie/dublin-bus
Click to expand...
Thanks. But it's a ridiculous system. And in my experience many drivers are cheesed off when you tag on with them rather than at the other scanner. :confused:
 
ClubMan said:
Good for you. But many users do have to take cognizance of the costs involved.
Click to expand...
There are to my knowledge now 1m free travel cards in existence for about 4m adults.

In the 2019 CSO survey of public transport only 3% of people said they didn't use public transport primarily due to cost. 9% cited low frequency, 6% cited unreliability.

Luxembourg made fares entirely free three years ago and didn't see much of a shift away from cars.

For sure there are people in Ireland for whom cost is an impediment to public transport use but it's a small number. A faster and more reliable network benefits all users and will attract new ones too.
 
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ClubMan said:
Thanks. But it's a ridiculous system. And in my experience many drivers are cheesed off when you tag on with them rather than at the other scanner. :confused:
Click to expand...
I never knew about that distinction between the scanners and again, the signage and guidance is useless to non-existent. And what happens if you want to do a short bus journey (1-3 stops) followed by a Luas or DART trip? Presumably you use the right hand one and you get the transfer 90 limit? Or the drivers one, followed by the tap-on at Luas which converts your initial fare to the transfer 90 one? It's clear as mud! I'm sure if you're using it everyday, you get wise to the nuances, but for the occasional visitor to the city, it's all a bit comical really.

thedaddyman said:
There is a daily cap in place as well, so once you've hit 5.60 on the Luas in terms of fares, you shouldn't be charged any more and 8.00 for multi mode transport.

NTA are supposed to be awarding a tender for what they call next generation ticketing in the next few months, that will allow the use of debit and credit cards instead of Leap or cash but it is a massive project to role out.
Click to expand...
Integrated ticketing has been talked about for years, and there was great fanfare when it "arrived" in the shape of the Leap card. It looks like what we have is actually a semi-integrated system with different modes of operation for different services.

Wouldn't it be great to have a Green minister for transport who would prioritise fixing stuff like this??:p:p:p:p:p
 
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