Key Post The taxation of dividends from German companies

So I have filled in the form.
It automatically prints out three copies - one for the Germans, one for me, one for the Irish Revenue.
I will now send them to the Irish Revenue for stamping.
I presume that they will keep one copy.
Do I send the two remaining copies to Germany?

Brendan
 
Yup, that's what I did with the French ones.

Don't be surprised but the Revenue never kept the copy destined for them but always sent it back to me and I binned it !

But maybe they kept a copy?
 
AAAContributor said:
Brendan - details here:


It is a very straightforward process to obtain on ROS.

When you log in and land on 'My Services', scroll down to 'Other Services' and click on 'Letter of Tax Residence'. Select the year and country (Germany in this instance). The document can also be accessed via MyAccount.
Click to expand...

Hi. Is a 'certificate of tax residence' the same as a 'letter of tax residency'? I have applied for a 'letter of tax residence' 4 weeks ago on my account on the revenue.ie site. But I am still waiting for the letter.
I am wondering how long it might take to get the letter and if it is necessary to include it in my return to the German authorities to claim a tax refund.
 
Wonderfish said:
It appears that from Jan 1st 2023 there is now no need to send the paper forms when submitting a claim. I am about to start this process now and wondering if anyone has done it digitally already?

Electronic filing procedure

Data Medium Procedure
www.bzst.de www.bzst.de
Click to expand...

Hi Wonderfish,

Did you get to submit your claim electronically?
In previous years, I have applied by paper form. I am trying to do an electronic submission now.
When I follow the link to electronic filing, it brings me to a page where I need to set up an Elster account.
Elster seems to be a German government site for filing tax returns - https://stripe.com/ie/resources/more/elster-germany
I have tried to set up an account with Elster, but it is asking me for a BZSt number, a "shared secret" etc. I have no ideas what these are.
Has anyone an idea what these may be / how to set up an Elster account / how to electronically submit an application to claim back German withholding tax.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
I managed to set up the Elster account. I submitted the electronic tax reclaim form in August 2023. The tax reclaim is showing as submitted and received in Elster but I have not received any further replies from the German Revenue.
 
When you begin the application you get an email as below
This email contains the BZSt secret (password)
Your BZSt number is sent by post.



Dear Madam, dear Sir,

You (name) have expressed interest in authenticated data communication via the BZStOnline portal (BOP).

Registration in the BOP takes place in the following steps:

1. The BZSt will send you a secret value by email.
2. The BZSt will send you a BZSt number by post.
3. You begin your registration in the BOP on the website
https://www.elster.de/bportal/registrierung-auswahl with the creation of a user account and the entry
the required data in the BOP.
4. You will receive an email to verify your email address. Confirm the link contained therein.
5. The BOP will send you an activation ID for the user account set up for you by email.
6. The BZSt will send you an activation code for the user account set up for you by post.
7. You activate your user account in the BOP via the activation ID in the email you received
submitted link. The activation ID and activation code are entered there.
8. You will receive a certificate from the BOP that you can use to log into your user account.

You are currently at step 1 and will receive the secret value in this email.

Your BZSt secret is: *********

Please keep this email.



Best regards

Federal Central Tax Office
 
Last edited:
Thanks S class. How did you begin the application? Could you post a link.
When I try to set up an account with Elster, it asks me for a BZSt number etc on the application page.
How did you get them to send you the BZSt number etc?



S class said:
When you begin the application you get an email as below
This email contains thec
Your BZSt number is sent by post.



Dear Madam, dear Sir,

You (name) have expressed interest in authenticated data communication via the BZStOnline portal (BOP).

Registration in the BOP takes place in the following steps:

1. The BZSt will send you a secret value by email.
2. The BZSt will send you a BZSt number by post.
3. You begin your registration in the BOP on the website
https://www.elster.de/bportal/registrierung-auswahl with the creation of a user account and the entry
the required data in the BOP.
4. You will receive an email to verify your email address. Confirm the link contained therein.
5. The BOP will send you an activation ID for the user account set up for you by email.
6. The BZSt will send you an activation code for the user account set up for you by post.
7. You activate your user account in the BOP via the activation ID in the email you received
submitted link. The activation ID and activation code are entered there.
8. You will receive a certificate from the BOP that you can use to log into your user account.

You are currently at step 1 and will receive the secret value in this email.

Your BZSt secret is: *********

Please keep this email.



Best regards

Federal Central Tax Office
Click to expand...
 
Has anyone applied for an exemption from German Dividend Withholding Taxes (DWT) on BOP rather than a refund.
 
Why doesn't ireland have a double taxation agreement with european countries or at least the biggest ones germany and france like it does for the US where you are automatically given credit for US tax deducted, afterall ireland is EU country, we went to alot of rounds during brexit negotiations surely this should have been done aswell?
 
joe sod said:
Why doesn't ireland have a double taxation agreement with european countries or at least the biggest ones germany and france like it does for the US where you are automatically given credit for US tax deducted, afterall ireland is EU country, we went to alot of rounds during brexit negotiations surely this should have been done aswell?
Click to expand...
Ireland does have double taxation treaties with European countries

Tax treaties by country

This page provides information on Double Taxation Agreements
www.revenue.ie www.revenue.ie

But unlike the US W8BEN the exemptions are not being applied automatically which forces everyone to apply instead.

There have been several EU cases about how DWT is being applied to overseas pension schemes but not to domestic pension schemes in Spain, Germany and the Netherlands.

But still no sign of automatic exemptions across Europe which is very frustrating.
 
maybe i'm missing something on this, but aren't you just paying the difference back to Irish revenue? Whatever you may be able to reclaim from Germany (which you won't know until its paid to you) gets taken off the amount you are declaring to Irish revenue as paid?
 
You can only reclaim the excess of 15% back from the foreign government.
So if the foreign government deducts 25% you can reclaim 10%.
You then submit your dividend income to Irish revenue.
You are allowed a refund of the foreign 15% off your Irish income tax payment.
You then pay the full Irish income tax on the dividend income.

If you don't reclaim the allowed 10% you will be allowed a maximum Irish tax refund of 15%. You then pay the full Irish income tax amount + 10% to the foreign government.
 
S class said:
You can only reclaim the excess of 15% back from the foreign government.
So if the foreign government deducts 25% you can reclaim 10%.
You then submit your dividend income to Irish revenue.
You are allowed a refund of the foreign 15% off your Irish income tax payment.
You then pay the full Irish income tax on the dividend income.

If you don't reclaim the allowed 10% you will be allowed a maximum Irish tax refund of 15%. You then pay the full Irish income tax amount + 10% to the foreign government.
Click to expand...
Not sure i fully follow.

As I understand it revenue 'top up' your taxable amount to the full Irish rate. So for dividends its your marginal rate? Even if you can reclaim 10% you've still paid 15%. Revenue charge you the difference between your marginal rate and 15%.
 
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