Self Administered Pension Schemes - time has come

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amax

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Hi Guys, I have finally reached the higher tax bracket and wish to set up a Self Administered Pension Scheme.

I have read through all the other threads but am still unsure how to initially go about this. Do i just contact my accountant and tell him I want to set this up? or do I contact a company.

If so, can anyone recommend which one to contact
 
If you want a self-directed pension (you invest into a policy with, for example, Standard Life or Irish Life and then instruct the company what you want your policy to purchase), any good broker should be able to set one up for you.

Otherwise, if you want a self-administered pension you need a pensioneer trustee. We tend to recommend Alan Morton of www.moneywise.ie for this as he's professional and knowledgeable. Otherwise, you can probably do a Google search for "pensioneer trustee".

Liam D. Ferguson
www.ferga.com
 
amax said:
Hi Guys, I have finally reached the higher tax bracket and wish to set up a Self Administered Pension Scheme.
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Just curious - why was reaching the 41% bracket the trigger for this? Setting up a SSAP I mean as opposed to starting (?) a pension in the first place?
 
I'm guessing the move into 41% was just the prompt to get a pension of some sort started, as there's no tax advantage in having a self-administered scheme over any other form of approved pension scheme.
 
Thanks. Are the charges on an SSAP not higher than, say, a 0%/1% PRSA or the like? I realise that some people will want an SSAP for the flexibility and control over investments it gives them.
 
Clubman, that is a good point. Ideally it would make more sense to be able to use a SAPS to (forgetting the current market) buy property etc tax free. Then by retirement have built up enough rental income to see you through your later years. This cuts out the middle men who are creaming off a nice management fee from your monthly pensions contribution and overall fund value, plus you will have assets to pass on to your children, rather than an annuity which will die with you.
 
Many (most?) people saving through a pension would already have significant investments in property through their own PPRs. As such surely concentrating even further in domestic (?) rental/residential (?) property would not be good from a diversification point of view?
 
Towger said:
Clubman, that is a good point. Ideally it would make more sense to be able to use a SAPS to (forgetting the current market) buy property etc tax free. Then by retirement have built up enough rental income to see you through your later years. This cuts out the middle men who are creaming off a nice management fee from your monthly pensions contribution and overall fund value, plus you will have assets to pass on to your children, rather than an annuity which will die with you.
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I'm not sure I understand your point. Whether you have a SSAP or an insured pension arrangement ("Managed Fund") has no bearing on what happens to your accumulated fund at retirement. You seem to be referring to the difference between annuities and Approved Retirement Funds.

The point about charges is valid - most SSAPs are set up on a flat fixed-charge basis, rather than a percentage of fund assets. But typically the charges can be €3,000 - €4,000 to set up an SSAP and €1,500 - €2,000 per year thereafter to run one. So if your fund is <€100,000 these charges represent a very high percentage of the fund and can be bettered by an insured scheme.

Many people set up an insured arrangement for the early years of their pension planning to build up a fund then switch to an SSAP after their fund has achieved a critical mass level that makes it economically viable.
 
Am I missing something? I thought that property investment via your Pension Scheme must be at arms length? and must be disposed off when taking your retirement benefits?
 
boaber said:
Am I missing something? I thought that property investment via your Pension Scheme must be at arms length? and must be disposed off when taking your retirement benefits?
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I have to say I thought that that was only available to company directors.
 
LDFerguson said:
The point about charges is valid - most SSAPs are set up on a flat fixed-charge basis, rather than a percentage of fund assets. But typically the charges can be €3,000 - €4,000 to set up an SSAP and €1,500 - €2,000 per year thereafter to run one.
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Can you do it yourself instead? Are the charges effectively just for tax returns or something like that?
 
Stifster said:
I have to say I thought that that was only available to company directors.
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No, the self-employed and those in non-pensionable employment can avail of either self-directed or self-administered pension arrangements also. The latter would be via a unit trust vehicle.
 
Nermal said:
Can you do it yourself instead? Are the charges effectively just for tax returns or something like that?
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No, legislation requires you to have a pensioneer trustee to oversee your pension fund and ensure that all transactions are in accordance with Revenue rules. Reporting is also a task of the pensioneer trustee. Every three years, you also need an actuary to prepare a funding report.
 
LDFerguson said:
That's right. Where is this contradicted above?
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I may have interpreted Towger's comment
plus you will have assets to pass on to your children, rather than an annuity which will die with you
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incorrectly. I was reading this as Towger stating that you could pass the physical property onto your children. Perhaps I interpreted it incorrectly.


It is possible to transfer a property from a Self-Administered pre-retirement pension arrangement to an ARF.
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True
 
Ah - I see where you're coming from. My interpretation of towger's comments was that s/he was referring to the difference between annuity (fund gone as soon as you purchase) and ARF (fund can be passed on if you die before exhausting it).
 
LDFerguson said:
No, the self-employed and those in non-pensionable employment can avail of either self-directed or self-administered pension arrangements also. The latter would be via a unit trust vehicle.
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Can anyone confirm where a self-employed person can set up a self-administered pension? I've been told by one pensioneer trustee that SA Pensions are only available for Company Pensions?
 
G123 said:
Can anyone confirm where a self-employed person can set up a self-administered pension? I've been told by one pensioneer trustee that SA Pensions are only available for Company Pensions?
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We offer self-directed Personal Pensions for self-employed people using a structure provided by Standard Life or Irish Life. Independent Trustee Company offer self-administed pensions for self-employed people. I'm sure there are others doing similar arrangements.
 
LDFerguson said:
We offer self-directed Personal Pensions for self-employed people using a structure provided by Standard Life or Irish Life. Independent Trustee Company offer self-administered pensions for self-employed people. I'm sure there are others doing similar arrangements.
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(Assuming we are saying that Self Administered is a non-insured arrangement)

Apparently not... I've been told that these are for Company Directors/Employees only. I can't see the logic for this though as Self Employed people can do a Self Administered ARF??
 
To be clear:
  1. Self Administered Pension Schemes generally apply to Occupational Pension structures, i.e. for Company Directors
  2. For Self Employed the legislation requires that they effect Personal Pension Plans (or PRSAs) through Insurance Companies. There are a number of providers out there that offer " self directed" Personal Pensions which offer a similar level of flexibility to SAPS (i.e. the individual can determine how the funds are invested but subject to some limitations).
ARFs are a separate product only for those who have retired and are available to individuals who retired from either Self Employed Personal Pension Plans, Occupational Pension Plans (where the individual was a 5%+ shareholder) or PRSAs. Seld Directed ARFs are available from a limited number of Qualifying Fund Managers.
 
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