School Principals: Leave Entitlements?

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Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Default Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

DeeFox said:
I didn't realise teachers could go on additional holidays during the school year too...

As it happens I really am changing career and will be starting the HDip in September - if you can't beat 'em join 'em!!
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It is only primary teachers who can get 3 days during the school term because they will have been obliged to attend a 3-day course during their contractual holidays.

This does not apply to second-level teachers.

Marion
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Marion said:
Default Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

It is only primary teachers who can get 3 days during the school term because they will have been obliged to attend a 3-day course during their contractual holidays.


Marion
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Actually they have to do a 5 day course during their holidays to get 3 days off during the year
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

ClaireM said:
Actually they have to do a 5 day course during their holidays to get 3 days off during the year
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Thanks for that clarification.

Marion
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

ClaireM said:
Actually they have to do a 5 day course during their holidays to get 3 days off during the year
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This is incorrect.

Attendance at a summer course is entirely at the discretion of the teacher. It's not obligatory but a teacher is entitled to 3 E.PV. (Extra Personal Vacation) days during the school year (with Board of Management approval) for attending a 5 day course.

DES info on E.P.V. Days:

Extra Personal Vacation (course days):

Where a teacher has, during the school year, attended an approved course, personal leave may be taken subject to board approval, on the basis of three days for attendance at a five day course, four days for attendance at a course or courses of ten days' duration and a maximum of five days for attendance at a course or courses of fifteen days' duration.

Where a teacher fails to attend each day of the course, entitlement to extra personal vacation will be restricted.

Personal vacation may not be taken after 30 June of the school year after attendance at the course, or courses. Personal vacation may be taken in single days, or in groups of days. Absence on personal vacation on a Friday and the following Monday would only constitute two days' leave. Personal vacation can also be used for the extension of the week’s leave allowed for marriage. Where all the teachers of a school are entitled to personal vacation the school may be closed, provided it will otherwise be in operation for not less than 183 days.

The Department of Education and Science does not provide substitute cover for teachers absent on course days, except in the case of one teacher schools.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

PaddyBloggit said:
This is incorrect.

Attendance at a summer course is entirely at the discretion of the teacher. It's not obligatory but a teacher is entitled to 3 E.PV. (Extra Personal Vacation) days during the school year (with Board of Management approval) for attending a 5 day course.
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Didn't mean to suggest it was obligatory to do a summer course. Merely that the course had to be 5 days rather than the 3 days suggested by an earlier poster to entitle the teacher to 3 days off during the school year
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

PaddyBloggit

It was my mistake.

So:

A teacher in a primary school may (but is not obliged to) attend a 5-day course during their contractual holidays and in return they will receive 3 days during the school year.

Please note that many teachers may attend the 5-day course but may not in fact avail of the the 3 EPV.

However some do.

Marion
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Exactly.

There's a pro-rata system in place .... as per DES info:

e.g do two 5 day course and get 4 EPV days.

Personally I've done a course every year but often don't use my EPV day entitlement.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

So you agree with my point: Not all teachers take the EPV day entitlement?

Marion
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

The teacher/principal is answerable to many people but not parents. Rest assured that they are following procedure.

Just to throw another spanner in the works here....it screams to me that the person may have taken parental leave.....an unpaid entitlement .....leave the person alone....there are too many parents or even non-parents judging something for which they do not know the whole facts....public servants yes...but the public are not their boss!

It is such a shame that this person in question can not enjoy their time off without their right to do this being questioned on a public forum and perhaps all around their parish too....what is this country coming to?
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Im not a teacher myself but have come from a family of hard working teachers and principals and I have witnessed the relentless hours worked by the principal during and after school.

Living in a rural area, I see our terrific hard-working principal still in the school, some evenings till 7 o'clock and she never seems to stop! If it weren't for the hard work and sheer dedication of the principals in the country, who give up their lives for our children in their care, we would really have problems on our hands!

In relation to the person who questioned the teacher being out for a few days....god only knows what she used the days for. All principal days are accounted for with the DES and perhaps you should find something a little less petty to be wasting your time on!

My father worked as a teaching principal and rarely used up all of his principal release days and he should have. He gave up 40 years of his life for the school and community and these negative questions are a real slap in the face for him!

I would also like to point out that several teaching principal posts have been re-advertised around the country again this weekend as nobody is applying for them.

That speaks volumes, does it not!!
 
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Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

This thread is strictly for the discussion of the Leave entitlements of School Principals.

Off topic discussions about the teaching profession in general will be deleted.

Posters who want to rant about teachers / school principals can do so in LOS or on the many alternative boards out there.

Thread moved to Work, Careers.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Welfarite said:
I don't think that you have the right to be prying so much into somebody's else's affairs. Would you like it if somebody was looking so clsoely at your private life? Accept that there may be very valid reasons why he has gone on holiday. As posters here point out, it's not a bed of roses. Perhaps he is suffering frofm stress and was advised to take time off? Perhaps he is owed time for painting/decorating/ out of hours works? TBH, I find your 'shock' a little bit hard to understand.
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Agree with this Welfarite. I'm a teacher and last year applied to the Board of Management to take 4 unpaid leave days to attend a family wedding abroad. It was granted a substiute paid and I took unpaid leave. Several parents commented on my tan etc when I returned..... It was a family wedding (i was entitled to one day off) and I took the rest of the time at my own expense.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

snowdaze said:
The teacher/principal is answerable to many people but not parents.
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This is not completely true. The OP could certainly raise this matter with the parents representative on the Board of Management for response.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Complainer said:
This is not completely true. The OP could certainly raise this matter with the parents representative on the Board of Management for response.
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Untrue. A specific question about a specific teacher cannot be raised at a board meeting by any board member.


Parents' Reps on the Board of Management are not acting as individuals on the Board. The Board acts as a Board. Parents have a right to elect two representatives to the Board but the two representatives aren't answerable to the parents with regard to board business.

General issues can be brought by parents' reps to the board but specific issues cannot.

Each meeting ends with what's called an 'Agreed Report' ... which states what members on the board can report back to their respective groups.

Teachers/Principals are not answerable to parents. Teachers/Principals are answerable to the Board of Management and to the DES.

Issues with regard to teachers' conditions of employment/absences etc. are within the remit of the DES.
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

PaddyBloggit said:
Untrue. A specific question about a specific teacher cannot be raised at a board meeting by any board member.

...
General issues can be brought by parents' reps to the board but specific issues cannot.
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Can you confirm your source for these restrictions?
PaddyBloggit said:
Each meeting ends with what's called an 'Agreed Report' ... which states what members on the board can report back to their respective groups.

Teachers/Principals are not answerable to parents. Teachers/Principals are answerable to the Board of Management and to the DES.

Issues with regard to teachers' conditions of employment/absences etc. are within the remit of the DES.
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The Education Act 1997 outlines the duty of the board as "to manage the school on behalf of the patron and for the benefit of the students and their parents". Where is the split of responsibilities between the Board and the DES coming from?
 
Re: Do National School Principals get extra Holidays

Complainer said:
Can you confirm your source for these restrictions?
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Board of Management Member's handbook.

Complainer said:
The Education Act 1997 outlines the duty of the board as "to manage the school on behalf of the patron and for the benefit of the students and their parents". Where is the split of responsibilities between the Board and the DES coming from?
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The patron is usually the local bishop. The BOM runs the school under the auspices of its patron be it a bishop or otherwise but must still be mindful of DES rules and regulations.

DES directly inspects teachers' work, pays the teachers and sets conditions of service and in the case of the OP's question above determines whether or not the teacher in question is entitled to the time off or not. BOM doesn't determine this.

BOM employs the teacher but DES pays them. DES uses it to its advantage as was seen with the Kinsale school abuse case when the DES was found not to be culpable for the actions of the Principal in question.
 
I don't see anything in the DES guidelines to support your claim that the BOM has no role in employment matters. Indeed, the manual states that "Difficulties relating to staff of a school are essentially matters for the Board of Management to investigate as the body responsible for the direct governance of the school and as the employer of the staff in the school". Can you be more specific about where in this manual this split of responsibilities is detailed?
 
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