Revenue 'audit' letter for bank savings

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MarySmyth

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Friend's son at work today got a letter from Revenue investigating his savings- they want details of all interest paid from 2005 and details of how he accumulated money. He's early 30s I'd say and apparently has c.55k in a bank deposit account (money accumulated over a number of years- from main job (paye), odd jobs, etc- just a hard worker by the sounds of it). A lot of panic in mum's mind- i think nothing to worry about!

Any advice?
 
Revenue audit

His basic salary is c. 35k gross per annum- and he saves it all! and 'odd jobs' are not major- maybe 30 euro/ p.w. doing gardens etc- not regular and nothing guaranteed! Just that this guy saves everything- still lives at home!
 
As long as he can justify the amount of his savings, he doesn't have a problem.
 
His basic salary is c. 35k gross per annum- and he saves it all! and 'odd jobs' are not major- maybe 30 euro/ p.w. doing gardens etc- not regular and nothing guaranteed! Just that this guy saves everything- still lives at home!

Unfortunately there's no Section in the Taxes Acts which permits an individual with an annual salary of €35,000 to earn an extra €1,560 per annum for doing "odd jobs".

Your friend's son could be on the hook for tax, PRSI, levies, penalties and interest in relation to his undeclared income and any penalties should more than likely be at the upper end of the scale (as this sounds like 'deliberate default' and any 'qualifying disclosure' made at this stage would be a 'prompted qualifying disclosure').

Your friend's son should consider quantifying his undeclared income and explore the option of making a 'prompted qualifying disclosure'.
 
Unfortunately there's no Section in the Taxes Acts which permits an individual with an annual salary of €35,000 to earn an extra €1,560 per annum for doing "odd jobs".

Your friend's son could be on the hook for tax, PRSI, levies, penalties and interest in relation to his undeclared income and any penalties should more than likely be at the upper end of the scale (as this sounds like 'deliberate default' and any 'qualifying disclosure' made at this stage would be a 'prompted qualifying disclosure').

Your friend's son should consider quantifying his undeclared income and explore the option of making a 'prompted qualifying disclosure'.

Also, the net effect of this will be that he has less than 55K in the bank. He hasn't lost his job or have huge debt that he can't pay back.

I understand that his mother is worried, but he is a big boy now and she needs to step back and let him sort out his own mess.
 
Not as messy as National Debt!

Thank you for feedback- I hardly expect that 55k accumulated over 5 years equates- from predominantly his paye job amounts to some big 'fraud' with Revenue! Would appear that Revenue have little or nothing to keep themselves occupied these days... so hence chasing cents! Regardless of the outcome for this young man, I would envisage that max payable with levies/ penalties if anything will amount to less that 1 or 2k for the 5 years!
 
I hardly expect that 55k accumulated over 5 years equates- from predominantly his paye job amounts to some big 'fraud' with Revenue!... Regardless of the outcome for this young man, I would envisage that max payable with levies/ penalties if anything will amount to less that 1 or 2k for the 5 years!

What you don't appear to appreciate is that the onus will be on this guy to prove the source of the funds saved. Statements for the savings account will be sought, showing the source of the lodgements. If the monies were transferred in from his current account, then statements for this account will be sought. If he is a PAYE worker then his current account should only have a regular pattern of lodgements (i.e. his wages). Any other lodgements will be queried. If any of the amounts lodged to savings do not come directly from his current account, then he would have a bit of explaining to do as to where the money came from (seeing as his only declared source of money is the wages lodged to his current account...)
So, if as you say he has €1,560 of untaxed income in each of the five years 2005-2009, and even if it is only taxable at the standard rate of tax his liability could look roughly as follows:

Tax Interest Penalty Total
2005: 312 140 234 696
2006: 312 105 234 661
2007: 312 70 234 616
2008: 312 35 234 581
2009: 312 - 234 546
-----
3,100

Now, that is if, as you say, his odd job income is €30 a week, but at the kind of rates people were charging to do pretty much anything up to 2008, that's like saying he did about 1hour of odd-job work a week, I'd be pretty surprised if that is actually the case. So I'd say he'll be doing well to escape out of this with a tax bill that low.

Would appear that Revenue have little or nothing to keep themselves occupied these days... so hence chasing cents!

I would say if Revenue are looking at a PAYE worker like this guy, it is primarily because of some kind of intelligence received in relation to him. The REAP system, Revenue's software program for analysing the perceived risk of taxpayers, is not yet gone live for PAYE-only taxpayers, so it couldn't just be a random thing. Therefore there would be no reason for this guy to receive any attention unless someone has tipped them off that he is doing unregistered cash work. It's Revenue Policy to at least examine any such allegation (same as if you report an offence to Gardai, they're obliged to at least consider whether or not there appears to be any merit to what you've alleged).

I'll ask you this, if you were a tax inspector, and an anonymous letter lands on your desk, suggesting that Joe Bloggs has been carrying out cash jobs for people for several years without registering for tax, what do you do? Well at the touch of a button you can see how much the guy has earned for the last 5+ years. You can also see the records from the financial institutions of how much interest he has earned, from which it can easily be inferred roughly how much cash he has on deposit. So, having quickly ascertained that this guy, who has been reported as being engaged in black market work, appears to have an inordinately high amount of money tucked away, what is the only reasonable step that you can take next?

So far the tax inspector has a couple of hours max worked on the case, work he had to do anyway, since the tip-off letter has to be given due consideration.

For the remainder of the audit, maybe a total of a couple of days to run through and cross-check the lodgements to the couple of bank accounts, issue further correspondence, and maybe interview the taxpayer. So say three days work in total, start to finish, and while approaching the case with an open mind, he's pretty sure at the outset that he's likely to be getting an audit yield. I think that's pretty good value for Government money.

As for Revenue having little to do, if they were doing so little then this guy wouldn't be getting a letter, would he? As for chasing cents, I'd hardly call 55k of possibly untaxed money sitting in a bank account "cents", would you? (If that was all untaxed income then it would mean a tax/interest/penalty bill of maybe 80-100k!)
 
I would say if Revenue are looking at a PAYE worker like this guy, it is primarily because of some kind of intelligence received in relation to him.

I would suggest that this is unlikely, given the OP's opening comment

Friend's son at work today got a letter from Revenue investigating his savings- they want details of all interest paid from 2005 and details of how he accumulated money.

Many taxpayers have got such Revenue letters in recent days, all issued on 1 November. I have been told by a Revenue source that 'large numbers' of such letters have been issued to taxpayers, selected on the basis of interest earnings as per financial institutions' DIRT records.
 
Oh, I see, thanks Mr McGibney! I was working on the assumption it was actually an audit notification he had received, as I hadn't heard about the issue of these enquiry letters. The case could still end up going down the road I described though, depending on what explanations he gives, given the mismatch between his visible earnings and the amount he has saved...
 
There is no way that this guy is going to be done for the odd jobs - I would presume that he could use the Bertie defence and say he won it on the horses. I would presume virtually all of the lodgements were from his work employment and that the odd job money he used for walking around money and wasn't lodged.
 
As for chasing cents, I'd hardly call 55k of possibly untaxed money sitting in a bank account "cents", would you? (If that was all untaxed income then it would mean a tax/interest/penalty bill of maybe 80-100k!)

I think you're over-reacting just a little. He's in his 30s, he's probably been working for 6 years, he's earning 35k a year and living at home so he probably has no living expenses other than socialising and holidays. At that rate, it wouldn't be hard to save several thousand a year.
 
My guess is that Revenue already know about the 'odd jobs' and, based on analysing earnings, bank account records etc. already have a fair idea of how much tax he owes on the undeclared income. The letter is Revenue giving him a chance to come clean. It can also be used to trap him. If he responds declaring he has no undeclared income, then Revenue will use this against him and rack up the fines/penalties.
 
I think you're over-reacting just a little. He's in his 30s, he's probably been working for 6 years, he's earning 35k a year and living at home so he probably has no living expenses other than socialising and holidays. At that rate, it wouldn't be hard to save several thousand a year.

I didn't say it would all be taxed, but my point was that it does look like an inordinate amount for someone that age to have saved. Even if as you say he has saved 7 or 8 grand a year out of legitimate taxed monies, that could still leave 15-20k to be accounted for. I doubt the situation will be that bleak for him, but I was only trying to illustrate to the OP that it might not be all as rosy as she seemed to think..!
 
€35K Gross equates to roughly €29K net of all taxes for a single guy who is not self-employed.

Over 8 years this equates to €232K net of tax

Having saved €55K this equals 23.71% of net salary

Is it possible/realistic for anyone to save almost 25% of their salary every month for 8 years.

Over 5 years it equates to 37.9% of net salary
 
Update

Thank you all for feedback- a lot of info there. Not sure I will tell my friend- but it is certainly a useful insight. I expect at suggested that based on savings/ dirt tax that he received letter. He is not a tradesperson or anything exotic like that! But if he stated he got the monies from his family members- gifts- what would the implication be?
 
Thank you all for feedback- a lot of info there. Not sure I will tell my friend- but it is certainly a useful insight. I expect at suggested that based on savings/ dirt tax that he received letter. He is not a tradesperson or anything exotic like that! But if he stated he got the monies from his family members- gifts- what would the implication be?

Well, for starters he'd be lying. So if he gets caught in the lie, they'll really go hard on him.

It all depends on the pattern of lodgements really; like if he's lodged relatively small amounts of cash often into his savings account, a pattern consistent with someone doing nixers, I wouldn't accept that these were gifts from family (he's not a teenager getting pocket money!). If it were to be accepted that these were gifts, they'd have to be larger sums, lodged less frequently, and ultimately the auditor could ask to see the funding source, i.e. the withdrawal of a corresponding sum from the family member's account.

Again, I'm outlining the worst case scenario. It depends on the auditor really, and how they view the 55k of savings, and whether or not there are any other markers about this guy on Revenue's records to suggest he's been messing.

The bottom line is that he shouldn't try to lie his way out of it. He could make a prompted qualifying disclosure (or depending on the wording of the letter, it may even be possible to make an unprompted qualifying disclosure i.e. the minimum level of penalties).
 
I don't see anything extraordinary in the OP amount of savings. A friend of mine is in a similar income range (with no nixers) and is desperately saving to buy a property. He lives at home with mum who provides all the home comforts free (Her way of helping him to get on the housing ladder) and as he is studying there very little time at the moment for socializing. Living costs for him are minimal, hence the large savings
 
Isn't it possible that this relates to undeclared income from the interest on savings?
I realise DIRT is deducted by the savings institution, but any interest received after DIRT is deducted is also liable for income tax isn't it?
 
Isn't it possible that this relates to undeclared income from the interest on savings?
I realise DIRT is deducted by the savings institution, but any interest received after DIRT is deducted is also liable for income tax isn't it?

The bank should be deducting DIRT from every single interest payment. This satisfies the PAYE requirements in full on the interest received irrespective of the level of other income (ie - the interest is only taxable at the low rate of tax)* but there may be some PRSI liability depending on the level of interest received.

* - just dawned on me that this may be a way of discouraging people to save if the Government made Deposit Interest taxable at a person's marginal rate of income tax instead of the standard rate.
 
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