Retired couple - no major queries, just want to check is anything missing?

Brendan Burgess said:
I understand that the three year cap applies only to the PPR so I am not sure what statement I made which needs correcting?
Click to expand...
I think it's relevant that people should understand that the three-year cap is for PPR, not financial assets.

I don't have statistics on the distribution of nursing home stays, but I know of several people who have lasted longer than three years in one.
 
"When Fair Deal first started, the average length of stay was approximately four years. But at the end of 2014 it reduced to 1.9 years in public and private facilities," it said.

.

Two years average looks right. That said, longer stays are not unusual, two of my relatives lasted 8 & 9 years in a nursing home under Fair Deal, but another lasted only 2 months.
 
They are unusual.

1) The population you are looking at is probably aged 80+
2) Most of them do not go into nursing homes.
3) Of those that do, the average stay appears to be 2 years.
4) That means that the majority must be there under the 3 years.
5) So very long stays would be a small minority of the total population of people aged 80+
 
A couple of things and as much in the realm of a family review as a money makeover. First of all, your mother doesn't disclose her age, is there anything else that she hasn't disclosed, are you certain that there aren't other financial assets? The second thing is that one sibling lives in the family home and is a caregiver. This scenario can result in a serious falling out over who inherits what after the parents pass on.

How well do you know and get on with your siblings and is the caregiver sibling being adequately compensated for their caregiver role. Also, what happens if the parents' health deteriorates and the caregiving becomes much more intensive?
 
Cantillon,
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is private health insurance. They have the money to ensure they have a good policy. I would prioritise this.

Nursing home in the future and cash reserves have already been mentioned by quite a few posters, pointless me adding more to what I've already said on that for now. Brendan mentioned he may open something else on that eventually.
 
Indeed, I know an elderly widower whose children live abroad and are outraged at this ‘’effin Fair Deal, using their inheritance to pay for their fathers nursing home care as he can no longer manage at home on his own. Should be the state's problem, not theirs.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of that mentality out there.
 
Purple said:
I know families where this is not what the children want. They are like vultures circling over a wounded animal.
Click to expand...
There's always a cohort in society that aren't thinking of others, it's always themselves. Ireland have their share, as have others.
 
I am back, with some queries about the father’s ARF, which I am reviewing.

There were two AVCs, one was linked to main pension, one was a PRSA-AVC.

The ARF started with Irish Life in Dec 2008, broker is Cornmarket, 101% allocation.
  • Initial sum into ARF = 38,770
  • initial fund is Consensus Fund Series V, Irish Life risk code 5/7
  • the AMC is 1.50%
Nearly three years later, June 2011, the PRSA-AVC was matured, and added to the ARF.
  • Second sum = 24,130
  • Second fund is Public Sector Cautious Fund Series V, Irish Life risk code 3/7
  • The AMC is 1.53%
  • 24,371 went into the fund, so 101% allocation

Neither the parents nor I paid much attention to the fund values until now.

What I did notice over the years was that even after the withdrawal of 5% of the fund as an annual income, the capital value was holding up, or growing. I am now having a better look at the annual statements.


Consensus Fund unit price
  • 2009 = 0.876 euro
  • 2022 = 2.035 euro
  • Growth over 13 years is 132%

Public Sector Cautious Fund Series V unit price
  • 2011 = 1.031 euro
  • 2022 = 1.296 euro
  • Growth over 11 years is 25.7%
  • I presume the growth is dragged down as in the initial factsheet, 25% of this fund is in cash, 25% in Govt Bonds

One thing I noticed: the 5% income each year has always been taken from the (better-performing) Consensus Fund. This means this fund has fallen from over 48k units to 16k units. The units in the Cautious Fund are unchanged.

I never noticed this until now, years later.

Total saved = 62,900, most recent value = 63,500, after 5% income each year


My question: given that my father is reasonably physically healthy, given that the 5% annual income is not needed (it is not spent, it is saved), are we better to do a fund switch?

Could we request the 5% income to be drawn from both funds?

Or should we switch out of the Cautious Fund into 100% Consensus Fund?

Or switch brokers to get better AMCs?

I suppose my query fits into the debate on asset allocation in ARFs.

Thanks.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
OTOH cash of that amount can be used to pay for home care to keep them out of a nursing home as long as possible too.
Click to expand...
Id like to pick up on this point.

Is the cost of private home care any cheaper?

Im assuming the elderly person/ people will require 24 hour monitoring/care at home in the same way as they would in a nursing home.
 
Look ahead said:
Is the cost of private home care any cheaper?
Click to expand...
My grandfather paid a six-figure sum out of his own savings for 24-hour home care.

It kept him out of a nursing home for about a year but at a certain point a nursing home became medically necessary at which point the Fair Deal kicked in.
 
They are not using 5% annual income fully and finances are already in good shape. You could focus on non-financial matters to help them -
1. Sort out will
2. Improve quality of life by making home/ car more comfortable, travel etc.
3. One of the children is living with them and also playing role of carer. Has this arrangement being thrashed out openly and preferably formally.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Full time care at home is more expensive to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
I'd imagine full time 24 hour home help would be way more expensive. I think there is a tax break of up to €30k per incapacitated person per anum if the person who pays is is in the 40% tax bracket .Mind you , you'd have to have spending €75k per anum , nett cost €45k.
 
Wheelie Bin said:
I'd imagine full time 24 hour home help would be way more expensive. I think there is a tax break of up to €30k per incapacitated person per anum if the person who pays is is in the 40% tax bracket .Mind you , you'd have to have spending €75k per anum , nett cost €45k.
Click to expand...
If an elderly married couple had the means to fund 24 hour home care , could they , in practice reclaim €60k assuming one of them was paying the higher tax rate on a high end pension fund /ARF and home help cost €150k + ?
 
@Hasbeen

The max that can be claimed is for expenditure of €75k so ≈€30k is relieved if I'm not wrong.

But it would be a very rare case of a retired couple having paying that much tax at the higher rate in the first place.
 
Many thanks for all the replies.

Yes, there is a will in place.
No, there is no power of attorney, AFAIK.

In the short term, it is the queries raised in post #31 about fund choices in an ARF that I am focussed on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top