Refusal to give reference "due to GDPR "

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Greenbean

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Hi , have a question about references. My wife has received a job offer from HSE in the last few weeks .
As part of the process they are looking for " verification of service" of the nursing roles where she worked previously .
She worked in one private hospital from 1995 to 2010 . When she contacted theat private hospitals HR / payroll team ( with her payroll number ) she was told they couldn't give a reference because " they hold no data previous to 2015 due to GDPR " .
Has anyone ever heard anything like that before ? Seems incredible that a hospital would have no information on nursing / medical staff that worked there pre 2015 . Seems to me that my wife is just being fobbed off and they couldn't bother checking .
Does anyone have any advice as the HSE are delaying start of new role until they have received satisfactory verification of service for years worked in the private hospital . Any help would be appreciated ?
 
Gosh, did she pay into a pension fund when she was there? The company would surely need to know date employment commenced and ended to ensure any questions with regards to pension benefits were kept until the employee reached retirement age at least.

I would be surprised if they did not have records on her? Perhaps HR do not hold the records but another department within the hospital. She could always make a GDPR request?

I am assuming the HSE needs start date, end date and job title. Would social welfare have these details as they would have a record of your employment history. The only thing is they may not have job title.
 
They would have to keep records of employees in view of the nature of the work - litigation in the future etc

Also- Verification of service is routine for healthcare professionals.

I suggest phoning again and asking for the HR manager and also requesting via email.

If she has no success that route she could contact the head of nursing who may be able to assist her.
 
How did your wife phrase the request?There’s a world of difference between a reference and a verification of service.

A reference would typically contain information on standard of performance, character etc. It’s understandable that an employer would find it difficult to produce this so long after the employment relationship has ended.

However, there should be no difficulty providing verification of service. That’s a purely factual issue.
 
Did your wife keep payslips? That would de facto prove service.

Am not the GDPR expert but advice is often given to hold records no longer than is necessary for certain purposes.
 
It is best practice to hold all records for a minimum of 7 years after termination of employment.
Records of start and end date etc should always be kept.
Pensions are a different matter.
 
Salvadore said:
How did your wife phrase the request?There’s a world of difference between a reference and a verification of service.

A reference would typically contain information on standard of performance, character etc. It’s understandable that an employer would find it difficult to produce this so long after the employment relationship has ended.

However, there should be no difficulty providing verification of service. That’s a purely factual issue.
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She just requested that they fill out a form for verification of service . She didnt ask for any standard reference info re character etc .


But they claim they have no information " post 2015 due to GDPR " .

She has a couple of old payslips which has her payroll number on it but they said that wasn't any help either .


Frankly i just find the whole thing bizarre !
 
Greenbean said:
But they claim they have no information " post 2015 due to GDPR " .
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It's possible that employers do a bulk delete after seven years, I have heard of this.

She can attempt a formal subject access request under GDPR. Former employer may take this more seriously and look harder as it has a legal basis. This is the model from the DPO.

I wish to make an access request under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form in relation to...
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The law was an employer has to provide dates of employment and role, I'm not aware that GDPR overrode this.

IS she on the right point of the scale in her current or last job?
 
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Greenbean said:
Hi , have a question about references. My wife has received a job offer from HSE in the last few weeks .
As part of the process they are looking for " verification of service" of the nursing roles where she worked previously .
She worked in one private hospital from 1995 to 2010 . When she contacted theat private hospitals HR / payroll team ( with her payroll number ) she was told they couldn't give a reference because " they hold no data previous to 2015 due to GDPR " .
Has anyone ever heard anything like that before ? Seems incredible that a hospital would have no information on nursing / medical staff that worked there pre 2015 . Seems to me that my wife is just being fobbed off and they couldn't bother checking .
Does anyone have any advice as the HSE are delaying start of new role until they have received satisfactory verification of service for years worked in the private hospital . Any help would be appreciated ?
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You are asking about personal data for a period that ended about 12 years ago, not 2015. The general principle under GDPR is that you don't keep information beyond the period it is needed for business reasons. I can't speak for the HSE, but in the couple of banks I was involved in that data would be long gone. The pension records would be all that remains.
 
Jim2007 said:
I can't speak for the HSE, but in the couple of banks I was involved in that data would be long gone. The pension records would be all that remains.
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The query isn't about the HSE.

I would consider it absurd to the point of negligence if a hospital for example has kept no record of the doctors or nurses working for it to on a given day or on a given case seven years ago.
 
Yes. I advise on GDPR and it’s standard to delete data 7 years after the end of employment. She should provide the response to her new employer.

Maybe find a manager she used to work for to provide validation? The Revenue Commissioners would also have records.
 
T McGibney said:
The query isn't about the HSE.

I would consider it absurd to the point of negligence if a hospital for example has kept no record of the doctors or nurses working for it to on a given day or on a given case seven years ago.
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2022 - 2010 is not 7.
 
becky said:
The law was an employer has to provide dates of employment and role, I'm not aware that GDPR overrode this.
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What is the legal basis? I don't doubt you but Google hasn't helped me to find it.

I imagine there has to be some point at which an employer's obligation must cease.

In the last 40 years tens of thousands of people have worked at any large Dublin hospital for instance. For instance does a nurse who worked there for three weeks in 1993 have a right to have that verified today?
 
I work in a public hospital and we continue to provide dates of employment going back to the 80s for doctors.

I'll try and find the name of the act but like I said Im not aware if GDPR overrode it.

Has she p60s for those years?
 
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Public hospitals would keep those records because they need them for pension verification purposes. If she worked in a private hospital and had no pension with them then there would be no need to keep those records.

Anyone who would sue the hospital should announce their intention to sue within 2 years, please correct me if I am wrong, so after 7 years of maintaining data on staff they should be safe to shred it.

In a public hospital where they can look back years later on care provided it they become aware of systematic issues it is probably doctor records rather than nurse records that would be more valuable.

But having said all of that, there can be many reasons why ex staff, government agencies, new employers may need to verify who worked where and when they worked there? If it was to verify depth of skill in a particular area, perhaps or a state investigation? Is it prudent for employers to keep a basic database of ppsn, name, job title, starting date, finishing date?
 
Clamball said:
Public hospitals would keep those records because they need them for pension verification purposes. If she worked in a private hospital and had no pension with them then there would be no need to keep those records.

Anyone who would sue the hospital should announce their intention to sue within 2 years, please correct me if I am wrong, so after 7 years of maintaining data on staff they should be safe to shred it.

In a public hospital where they can look back years later on care provided it they become aware of systematic issues it is probably doctor records rather than nurse records that would be more valuable.

But having said all of that, there can be many reasons why ex staff, government agencies, new employers may need to verify who worked where and when they worked there? If it was to verify depth of skill in a particular area, perhaps or a state investigation? Is it prudent for employers to keep a basic database of ppsn, name, job title, starting date, finishing date?
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I agree, we have the famous PPARs system and this information (dates) is easily available from I think 2004.

As a former HSE recruiter I didn't bogged down in this type of stuff, unless I saw a reg flag sisuation.
 
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In the HSE personnel files are to be kept for 7 years after the last day of employment and should then be destroyed. Before destruction, any pension-related information is sent to the superannuation office - this includes verification of service.

Private hospitals generally follow the same rules but the big difference is that (unlike in HSE) some people may not be in a pension plan, so there may be no valid reason to maintain service records beyond the 7 years.

The hiring hospital should have a procedure in place for this, e.g. if someone worked at a private hospital that has since closed down and there are no records.
 
arbitron said:
In the HSE personnel files are to be kept for 7 years after the last day of employment and should then be destroyed. Before destruction, any pension-related information is sent to the superannuation office - this includes verification of service.

Private hospitals generally follow the same rules but the big difference is that (unlike in HSE) some people may not be in a pension plan, so there may be no valid reason to maintain service records beyond the 7 years.

The hiring hospital should have a procedure in place for this, e.g. if someone worked at a private hospital that has since closed down and there are no records.
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Best thing to do now is keep contracts and get a service letter/email from each employer when you finish a job.
 
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