Re-Turn Plastic Bottles

[Freelance]

Please do not get riled up about a few cent and whatever you do do not take it out on staff or managers who are not in control of any of this.

If it's a mess 6 months from now then fair enough go for gold at Eamon Ryan or whoever is in vogue as the villain of the day but in the mean time just email [email protected] or ring (01) 461 8680 so they have a chance to fix the problems.

If that's directed at me, then I'm not getting riled up. And I certainly didn't take it out on any staff or managers. The post above is a minor rework of an e-mail I sent to re-turn today which, given the discussion here, I considered worth putting in the public domain.

Teething Problems have been mentioned a lot in relation to this scheme. Re-turn have had years to prepare for it, and the experience gained in very mature implementations in other countries should have made it very easy to get it right first time. If the barcode databases which the RVMs are using aren't kept up to date this will be an ongoing problem and will undermine the scheme. I'm all for giving people a break when they deserve it, but this is a commercial operation which is being paid to operate the scheme, not some happy-clappy volunteer venture. So far their communication, planning and forethought leave a lot to be desired, in particular in relation to the transition.

 

[arbitron]

If that's directed at me, then I'm not getting riled up. And I certainly didn't take it out on any staff or managers. The post above is a minor rework of an e-mail I sent to re-turn today which, given the discussion here, I considered worth putting in the public domain.

Teething Problems have been mentioned a lot in relation to this scheme. Re-turn have had years to prepare for it, and the experience gained in very mature implementations in other countries should have made it very easy to get it right first time. If the barcode databases which the RVMs are using aren't kept up to date this will be an ongoing problem and will undermine the scheme. I'm all for giving people a break when they deserve it, but this is a commercial operation which is being paid to operate the scheme, not some happy-clappy volunteer venture. So far their communication, planning and forethought leave a lot to be desired, in particular in relation to the transition.

Not directed at anyone on this thread. I would have @d you.

 

[pudds]

The gauge of carlsberg cans in particular and some others is so light that they can be easily dented just opening them so can't see many of them being reused.

 

[Sconeandjam]

View attachment 8463View attachment 8464

Purchased these in Lidl on Wednesday and 2x15c deposits shown on receipt. Both containers are clean, dry and undamaged, with detachable tops in place. Dropped them into a RVM in Dunnes yesterday which spat them out with the message "Store does not accept this barcode. Please remove container and dispose of elsewhere"

The barcode 4056489679738 is listed on https://re-turn.ie/consumer/#barcodeChecker

This contradicts the statement on https://re-turn.ie/ "You can return your empty and undamaged drinks container featuring the Re-turn logo to any participating shop or supermarket nationwide regardless of where it was purchased"

Suggests that the barcode database which the RVMs are using isn't being updated frequently/in-realtime, which if it is the case will be a significant issue going forward.

I would definitely contact Re turn and ask what can be done.

 

[peemac]

Era ring Eamonn on man of the people and all that

• (01) 618 3898

That's another part of the misinformation. The green party did not introduce this. Yep, it's in their remit under the present government, but if sf were in power and paul murphy was environment minister (paddy power 100,000/1), it would still be introduced.

It will be in the summer that we will see the difference it makes to the amount of litter in open spaces esp beaches - and we'll ask why we didn't do this 10 years ago

 

[arbitron]

This Conor Pope article and accompanying video are very interesting: Inside a Dublin recycling centre

The volume of household waste is mindblowing. And the people working there definitely earn their wages.

 

[Harvard]

This Conor Pope article and accompanying video are very interesting: Inside a Dublin recycling centre

The volume of household waste is mindblowing. And the people working there definitely earn their wages.

The packaging industry has a lot to answer for.

 

[JoeRoberts]

This is a solution brought in to solve a problem that didn't really exist.
Plastic bottles/cans are currently probably the item with the highest recycle rate of all.
Whats going to happen on a saturday morning when the machines are full in the shop ?
Anyone throwing one on a beach will still throw one on a beach, 15 cent won't make a difference.
With no similar tax in NI it will become another cross border business like cigs and coal, allowing the Govt to show their actions are reducing consumption in ROI based on ROI sales while in reality the consumption is the same.

 

[demoivre]

Never thought I'd see the day when I'd be penalised for using my recycling bin.

 

[arbitron]

This is a solution brought in to solve a problem that didn't really exist.
Plastic bottles/cans are currently probably the item with the highest recycle rate of all.

According to the EPA, we only recycle 28% of our plastic waste. Aluminium rate isn't much better.

The 2025 target for both is 50%.

With no similar tax in NI it will become another cross border business like cigs and coal, allowing the Govt to show their actions are reducing consumption in ROI based on ROI sales while in reality the consumption is the same.

Very few people south of the Dublin-Sligo trainline ever go shopping in Northern Ireland. No-one will be driving hours out of their way to save money on this.

Even in Dublin, fewer than 1 in 5 households per year shop in NI. Only half of those shoppers buy groceries when there - most are going for clothing and about 40% purchase alcohol. I don't think they will waste space in the boot on soft drinks.

 

[Cervelo]

The packaging industry has a lot to answer for.

Yes but not only the packaging industry but also the manufacturing and convenience industry as well
Using Coca-Cola as an example, why do we have to have so many can and bottle sizes for the one drink??
AFAIK there is a 150Ml and a 330Ml can, a 500Ml, a 750Ml, a 1Litre, a 1.25Ltr, a 1.5ltr and now after an absence of nearly 10 years the 2ltr is back on the shelves in Ireland, and in other countries there is also a 3Ltr bottles
That's 9 different ways to sell the one product and that's without including all the different multipacks and special offer packs!!
And then don't forget the different glass bottle sizes as well that are mainly used in bars and restaurants

While on one hand I totally agree with the "end user pays" policy but on the other I'd like to see industry doing their part as well
and reduce the amount of packaging waste that they allow into the system

 

[odyssey06]

According to the EPA, we only recycle 28% of our plastic waste. Aluminium rate isn't much better.

The 2025 target for both is 50%.

View attachment 8477




Very few people south of the Dublin-Sligo trainline ever go shopping in Northern Ireland. No-one will be driving hours out of their way to save money on this.

Even in Dublin, fewer than 1 in 5 households per year shop in NI. Only half of those shoppers buy groceries when there - most are going for clothing and about 40% purchase alcohol. I don't think they will waste space in the boot on soft drinks.

There are many different categories of 'plastic' waste. What's the % for the bottles in scope of this return scheme?

 

[T McGibney]

Using Coca-Cola as an example, why do we have to have so many can and bottle sizes for the one drink??

That's easy. Product segmentation - one of the basics of marketing.

 

[Cervelo]

That's easy. Product segmentation - one of the basics of marketing.

I know why we have it, I'm questioning going forward if it is still the correct way to be doing things, thinking along the lines of the three R's

 

[arbitron]

There are many different categories of 'plastic' waste. What's the % for the bottles in scope of this return scheme?

I couldn't find a breakdown.

Almost 2 billion bottles/cans consumed in Ireland per year, so every percent counts.

We are supposed to achieve 90% recycle rates within the next 5 years. Even if we achieve that we will still be sending 200,000,000 to landfill/incinerators.

While on one hand I totally agree with the "end user pays" policy but on the other I'd like to see industry doing their part as well
and reduce the amount of packaging waste that they allow into the system

This is a really important point. The producers have the power but they have convinced the world that it's the job of govt/retailer/consumer to fix a problem they create.

 

[T McGibney]

I know why we have it, I'm questioning going forward if it is still the correct way to be doing thing thinking along the lines of the three R's

I can only imagine that a company as successful as Coca Cola knows exactly what they're doing in relation to their product offerings.

 

[odyssey06]

I couldn't find a breakdown.

Almost 2 billion bottles/cans consumed in Ireland per year, so every percent counts.

We are supposed to achieve 90% recycle rates within the next 5 years. Even if we achieve that we will still be sending 200,000,000 to landfill/incinerators.


This is a really important point. The producers have the power but they have convinced the world that it's the job of govt/retailer/consumer to fix a problem they create.

There doesn't seem to be a breakdown, as I have seen the same figures quoted elsewhere and queried on the same basis.
It is not clear what % of the plastic and aluminium figures are actually made up of items in the Re-turn scheme.
Even if 100% of those items were recycled, would we get to the targets?

Given the amount of time \ money \ change impact going into Re-turn, it is quite surprising that such a basic exercise does not seem to have been done beforehand.

 

[Leo]

This is a solution brought in to solve a problem that didn't really exist.
Plastic bottles/cans are currently probably the item with the highest recycle rate of all.

Not so:

Waste recycling: Municipal waste recycling rates remained unchanged at 41 per cent, while packaging recycling fell by 4 per cent to 58 per cent. Just under 28 per cent of plastic packaging generated in Ireland was recycled in 2021, with the remainder being treated by incineration (70%) and disposal (2%). Ireland is off track to meet mandatory EU recycling targets set to apply from 2025 for municipal waste, packaging waste and plastic packaging waste.

I live near a shop, it will be interesting to see if the mix of litter generated in the area will change.

 

[Harvard]

Yes but not only the packaging industry but also the manufacturing and convenience industry as well
Using Coca-Cola as an example, why do we have to have so many can and bottle sizes for the one drink??
AFAIK there is a 150Ml and a 330Ml can, a 500Ml, a 750Ml, a 1Litre, a 1.25Ltr, a 1.5ltr and now after an absence of nearly 10 years the 2ltr is back on the shelves in Ireland, and in other countries there is also a 3Ltr bottles
That's 9 different ways to sell the one product and that's without including all the different multipacks and special offer packs!!
And then don't forget the different glass bottle sizes as well that are mainly used in bars and restaurants

While on one hand I totally agree with the "end user pays" policy but on the other I'd like to see industry doing their part as well
and reduce the amount of packaging waste that they allow into the system

The one that gets me is having 2-3 layers of packaging on a product and the inside container is also branded.

 

[Cervelo]

I can only imagine that a company as successful as Coca Cola knows exactly what they're doing in relation to their product offerings.

Do they, I seem to remember back in 1985 they launched a new flavour Coke that didn't do to well
In fact I think it's used as an example in marketing courses of how not to do things

But having said that I think any company that has been around for 138 years know what there doing when it comes to running there own business and how to maximise profits but whether there acting in the best interests of the environment or "greenwashing" I can't say