Public Service Attitudes.

Purple said:
The public sector were recruiting 20’000 odd people a year at that stage. That’s quite a successful record for any organisation.
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Have you considered that this may have in response to the vacancies arising by people leaving to join the private sector and/or by the increase to public services (not servants) that the public demanded (and which successive governments where only too happy to provide).

The point is that there was plenty of opportunity to join for anyone who really wanted. To complain now that the people who have these jobs are somehow privileged is just nonsense.

Purple said:
“Some bias towards the Labour Party”, you have to be joking! He spent most of his adult life as a member and working for them. He has criticised government policy and the actions of some state service providers but I never remember his saying that PS pay was too high.
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I never heard him denouncing Hitler either but that doesn't make him a Nazi.

I don't care what level of bias he has towards the labour party because frankly it's irrelevant. My point is that he doesn't have any bias (historical or current) towards public servants.
 
Protocol said:
Here is an ad for a job in St. Pat's from April 2008:



There are 2 scales - AL and L. The AL starts at 48k, the L at 52k.

I am referring to staff who start on the L scale at 52k, next point = 62k, then head on for 84-87k.
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Given that the post in St Pats is a one year post, the scale is pretty much moot. Your mention of 30-year-old 'heading for €87k' is intentionally misleading. You might want to mention exactly how long it will take them to get to the top of the scale - they certainly won't be 30 when they get there (though quite why their age is relevant, I don't know).
 
It will take them approx 7-10 years to reach 87k.

First point = 52k
Second point = 62k
7-10 points altogether
Top point = 85-87k

My main point is this: they have no real complaints.

They are very well paid. They start straight onto the upper L scale. They get plenty of leave. They have good pensions. Most other workers would argue that they have little to strike about.

Most people would wonder why they are striking - it appears to be fruitless.

There is little or no public support for their actions.

A family with 2 children on 30-50k single or combined income has more to worry about. GP costs, childcare costs, etc.

Fair play to them, they have strong wages, but it's the militant strike attitude I can't understand.
 
Protocol said:
They start straight onto the upper L scale.
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I don't see your problem here. Lots of people in a range of posts in both public and private sectors start at €60k or at €70k or at €600k (if you work in AIB). They start on the scale for the job that they get, the job they are qualified to do.
 
Note that most colleges have a lower scale, as well as a higher scale.

By not having a lower scale, they are lucky, they get higher incomes than the same workers elsewhere.

Anyway, good luck to them.

But strike?? They should be thanking the Govt, in my opinion.
 
Similarly, there are couples, both employed in the public service, on 150k, paying 25% tax.

Good jobs, low tax compared to everywhere else, good pensions, plenty of leave.

Why strike???
 
I know of retired teachers on 1000+ per week.

Some pay as little as 2% tax in 2008.

They earn 85 per hour part-time wages.

They have medical cards.

That sort of society is lovely, but unsustainable.

Why strike??
 
There are two major misconceptions in this thread.
The first is that all public servants are striking next Tuesday. They are not. To the best of my knowledge none of the SIPTU state agencies branches (of which I am member) are striking. I’m sure there are other PS organisations which will not strike.

The second, which arises form the first ill-informed, clearly biased post, is that PS workers don’t care for their jobs or the quality of their work. This is such nonsense that it doesn’t even warrant a reply. But its typical of the public attitude being fired up by the Independent and other rags. I worked for years in the private sector before joining the PS and most of my former colleagues wouldn’t have stayed a wet week in the job.

Also a note about recruitment. In my department, a position opened in 2003 for very good technical position. There were 10 applications, 5 of which were chosen for interview. Only two of these showed up and the rest didn’t even call to cancel.

Same grade job was advertised before the recruitment ban. 500 applications. And I’m guessing they all showed up for the interview. Like a lot of public servants, I had friends laugh at me during the boom when I told them I worked 45-50 hours with no overtime and no bonus. I would tell friends about open positions over the years and never once did I get any interest.

M
 
Mouldy said:
There are two major misconceptions in this thread.
The first is that all public servants are striking next Tuesday. They are not. To the best of my knowledge none of the SIPTU state agencies branches (of which I am member) are striking. I’m sure there are other PS organisations which will not strike.
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Are you certain? I understood that SIPTU had voted for strike, and I'm in an agency that will definitely be striking (albeit IMPACT, not SIPTU).


Mouldy said:
Also a note about recruitment. In my department, a position opened in 2003 for very good technical position. There were 10 applications, 5 of which were chosen for interview. Only two of these showed up and the rest didn’t even call to cancel.

Same grade job was advertised before the recruitment ban. 500 applications. And I’m guessing they all showed up for the interview. Like a lot of public servants, I had friends laugh at me during the boom when I told them I worked 45-50 hours with no overtime and no bonus. I would tell friends about open positions over the years and never once did I get any interest.
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Absolutely agree. I know of one organisation that was recruiting an architect at AP level (approx 70k prior to the levies) in 2007, and went through three rounds of recruitment with very little interest from serious candidates. It was only as construction started tightening in 2008 that they finally got good candidates on board.
 
Protocol said:
It will take them approx 7-10 years to reach 87k.

First point = 52k
Second point = 62k
7-10 points altogether
Top point = 85-87k

My main point is this: they have no real complaints.

They are very well paid. They start straight onto the upper L scale. They get plenty of leave. They have good pensions. Most other workers would argue that they have little to strike about.

Most people would wonder why they are striking - it appears to be fruitless.

There is little or no public support for their actions.

A family with 2 children on 30-50k single or combined income has more to worry about. GP costs, childcare costs, etc.

Fair play to them, they have strong wages, but it's the militant strike attitude I can't understand.
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Perhaps they are striking to try to protect their pay and conditions. Hardly a big surprise really.
 
Reading Fergus Finlay upbraiding people for daring to criticise our overpaid public servants, justifying the unjustifiable with what seems to be illogical reasoning, is like watching a dog licking its balls while a hind leg is scratching at a flea - an amazing pointless spectacle that fascinates in a sordid sort of way.

Then you remember why dogs lick their balls - because they can.
And eventually, you see the connection between Fergus and ball-licking.
Fergus Finlay does this, because he can.

Take this comment by the Clever One.

"Public service pay is about one-third of public spending. So every €3 you take off a public servant should give you about €1 in public spending cuts."

Pardon?

Now I don't claim to be as bright as Fergus, and I certainly don't enjoy a six figure salary proving how valuable my personal abilities are to the state and whatever body employs me.

But if something is 1/3 of something else, say like €2 is 1/3 of €6 and you take away €1, you have reduced the total by €1 to €5 not by 33 cent.

Please feel free to tell me I've missed something here and Fergus logic in 6 dimensions is correct.

Mods, I'm sorry if this is decending into a rant and I apologise in advance, but somebody quoting a page of Finlay's nonsense at me is more than I can take this afternoon - that's not directed at the poster, but at the content. :)

TIA

ONQ.
 
Complainer said:
And is there any reason/rationale/explanation for the difference scales at different institutions?
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Most colleges have at least 2 scales.

This place has only one (the upper) leaving the staff in the lucky position of never having to apply for a promotion to the upper scale.
 
Husker said:
Perhaps they are striking to try to protect their pay and conditions. Hardly a big surprise really.
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Yes, that is what they say.

My point is that even if they suffer a 5% pay cut, their pay and conditions are still very good.

Indeed, some tell me that they feel overpaid for the job they do.
 
Protocol said:
They get plenty of leave.
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Just to clarify, it was mentioned previously that lecturers got 14 weeks off. If I remember correctly I got about 25 days off, a far cry from 70 and and not that much above the minimum leave entitlement. Now saying that, the salary was pretty good.
 
Sarn said:
Just to clarify, it was mentioned previously that lecturers got 14 weeks off. If I remember correctly I got about 25 days off, a far cry from 70 and and not that much above the minimum leave entitlement. Now saying that, the salary was pretty good.
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In one IT, I can confirm summer leave from either 20th or 25th June to 1st September. That makes 9-10 weeks?
 
Protocol said:
In one IT, I can confirm summer leave from either 20th or 25th June to 1st September. That makes 9-10 weeks?
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A friend of mine works in an IT. He gets 40 days off plus his 12 flexi-days. He said his week is so short it's hard not to work up flexi-days.
 
onq said:
Reading Fergus Finlay upbraiding people for daring to criticise our overpaid public servants, justifying the unjustifiable with what seems to be illogical reasoning, is like watching a dog licking its balls while a hind leg is scratching at a flea - an amazing pointless spectacle that fascinates in a sordid sort of way.

Then you remember why dogs lick their balls - because they can.
And eventually, you see the connection between Fergus and ball-licking.
Fergus Finlay does this, because he can.

Take this comment by the Clever One.

"Public service pay is about one-third of public spending. So every €3 you take off a public servant should give you about €1 in public spending cuts."

Pardon?

Now I don't claim to be as bright as Fergus, and I certainly don't enjoy a six figure salary proving how valuable my personal abilities are to the state and whatever body employs me.

But if something is 1/3 of something else, say like €2 is 1/3 of €6 and you take away €1, you have reduced the total by €1 to €5 not by 33 cent.

Please feel free to tell me I've missed something here and Fergus logic in 6 dimensions is correct.

Mods, I'm sorry if this is decending into a rant and I apologise in advance, but somebody quoting a page of Finlay's nonsense at me is more than I can take this afternoon - that's not directed at the poster, but at the content. :)

TIA

ONQ.
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LMAO, that's brilliant!
 
Protocol said:
It will take them approx 7-10 years to reach 87k.

First point = 52k
Second point = 62k
7-10 points altogether
Top point = 85-87k
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Where did you get this salary scale from? I have never seen such a short salary scale in my life.

Secondly nobody would reach the top of that salary scale for at least 10-15 years or somebody with 10-15 years of experience.

Do not forget that the likely candidate to get this job would probably have a masters degree and a doctorate. These are high calibre individuals.

They also conduct a lot of research as well as lecturing.

Where did it say that the person gets 40 days leave per annum??
 
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