Property Purchase contract - is this void.

[foxylady]

Here goes the question. Group a buys property from plans in say 2006 and completion to between 18 - 24 months. Group b the builder has prolonged the completion of said property by approx 5 to 6 more months on top of this bring it up to around 30 months (this new date is also only approx and could go on longer)

Builder is refusing to release group a from contract and expects thme to be tied to this forever and a day.

What comeback does the purchase have in said case ?

 

[mf1]

You know what the answer is going to be!

Whats in the contract, what advices have their own solicitors given them, is this anything to do with the down turn in the property market and the feeling that what they have agreed to pay is more than the property may be worth on completion, have they agreed to the extension of time, are there mitigating factors, etc.,etc.

mf

 

[ClubMan]

Surely group a should be asking their solicitor what's what since s/he has access to the contracts etc.?

Post crossed with mf1's!

 

[foxylady]

You know what the answer is going to be!

Whats in the contract, what advices have their own solicitors given them, is this anything to do with the down turn in the property market and the feeling that what they have agreed to pay is more than the property may be worth on completion, have they agreed to the extension of time, are there mitigating factors, etc.,etc.

mf

It is nothing to do with downturn in the property market as group a very much want their own home being ftb's it is more to with the fact that they are being messed around and expected to wait over two years for a place to be built while their money is also earning interest for developers.

 

[ClubMan]

So what has their solicitor advised?

 

[foxylady]

So what has their solicitor advised?

Solicitor has mentioned arbitration but group does not know the costs or whether they can afford this option. Surely a contract has to protect both parties and not just the ones with all the money(builders)

 

[Purple]

What does the contract say?

 

[foxylady]

What does the contract say?

Purchaser was never given contract to read as they were assured it was all straight forward.

 

[mf1]

Lets try this again.

Why don't they get a copy of the contract now, read it and ask the solicitor to explain to them in really simple terms (a) what it says and (b) what was to happen if the building timeframe was exceeded? Let them ask their solicitor, if legally, they can walk away from the contract and, if no, why not?

mf

 

[foxylady]

So if you were never given a contract, how did it get signed?

I mean it was not read by party A as their solicitor told them it was all above board.

 

[efm]

Solicitor has mentioned arbitration but group does not know the costs or whether they can afford this option. Surely a contract has to protect both parties and not just the ones with all the money(builders)

I believe it is widely recognised that the standard building contract used in Ireland certainly favours the builder and not the purchaser.

 

[ClubMan]

And if people don't like the standard contract after reading it and getting advice from their solicitor then they are free to decline and/or negotiate.

 

[Stifster]

I believe it is widely recognised that the standard building contract used in Ireland certainly favours the builder and not the purchaser.

our house was about 18 months over its due completion date. As soon as they were finished the builders put the pressure on, even serving a completion notice when we weren't happy after the snag.

I'd agree with efm, the building contracts give minimal get out clauses to the buyer.

 

[foxylady]

I would have expected a solicitor to have informed you of your right and obligations and potential risks under the contract.

Was this a solicitor provided by the developer by any chance? If so, you need to go find another one (of your own). If not, go back and ask them some challenging questions, like:

Do you think it your repsonsibility to inform your client of any important obligations, or waivers of rights contained within a contract?

This was brought to the attention of the solicitor who said that the contract was straightforward property ourhcase contract that is standard in this country and that matters would only be resolved by arbitration.

 

[efm]

I would have expected a solicitor to have informed you of your right and obligations and potential risks under the contract.

For what it is worth my experience with solicitors and conveyancing has been poor to say the least - I have bought three new build houses and one new build apartment over the last ten years and have used four different solicitors firms - two were big name Dublin firms, who charged big name fees and two were local, and recommended, firms who charged less. In hindsight, for none of the purchases did I feel that the solicitor properly explained all of my possible obligations and risks.

Also, three of the four solicitors were unwilling to even consider any changes I requested to the wording of the standard building contract - the standard response was "lookit, it's the same for everyone - nobody else ever complained".

 

[Stifster]

For what it is worth my experience with solicitors and conveyancing has been poor to say the least - I have bought three new build houses and one new build apartment over the last ten years and have used four different solicitors firms - two were big name Dublin firms, who charged big name fees and two were local, and recommended, firms who charged less. In hindsight, for none of the purchases did I feel that the solicitor properly explained all of my possible obligations and risks.

Also, three of the four solicitors were unwilling to even consider any changes I requested to the wording of the standard building contract - the standard response was "lookit, it's the same for everyone - nobody else ever complained".

I accept your point to a certain extent but ultimately were there any difficulties?

It is virtually impossible to get changes to the standard terms accepted though special conditions are often put into the contract for sale.

 

[efm]

I accept your point to a certain extent but ultimately were there any difficulties?

Luckily there weren't any difficulties but that was not because the standard building contract is a robust, fairly balanced and even handed document, but because I was lucky enough to get average quality builders whom I badgered and cajoled to the best of my ability and who delivered buildings only 6 months after the original delivery date and to a barely acceptable standard.

However, I feel that had I not been so lucky I could have been badly exposed to interminable delays, sub standard construction and uncapped price increases.

Just for a bit of balance - I work with solicitors and in-house lawyers on a regular basis in my industry and I have a huge regard for many of them - however, I don't hold some of their colleagues in the conveyancing game in the same regard!

 

[Vanilla]

I disagree that the building contract is all one sided. However the standard building contract is silent as to what will happen if the builder runs over time ( and this time is usually in itself quite delayed).

The problem over the last 10 years is that the negotiating power has been firmly on the builders side so even if a solicitor wanted to make changes for their client the builder would simply refuse. It is then up to the client to either agree the standard terms or walk away. But people havent been willing to walk away. Understandably they have found their dream home, dream plans, dream investment and they cannot contemplate walking away. Whether that is about to change remains to be seen.

There has also been an ancillary problem in that people want cheaper and cheaper legal fees which means that solicitors must process more and more files to make a profit so that a certain percentage of solicitors, IMO, may not be taking the time to explain every detail to their clients. Although I feel that any conveyancing solicitor worth their salt should firmly point out the potential problem should a builder be late in closing even where they cannot do anything about it.

And then of course there is also a certain percentage of clients who simply do not listen when advices are given and afterwards claim ignorance.

 

[ClubMan]

It is virtually impossible to get changes to the standard terms accepted

Is this true? Is it because clients or solicitors don't push hard enough? Is it because it has been a seller's market for a long time? Was it always this way?

though special conditions are often put into the contract for sale.

Like what? You mean some sort of additions to the main body of the contract?

 

[Vanilla]

Is this true? Is it because clients or solicitors don't push hard enough? Is it because it has been a seller's market for a long time? Was it always this way?

Did you miss my post or just ignore it?