Possible false bids on a house?

[Lobby]

It is the estate agent that uploads the bids therefore it is up to them to "be concerned" with the authenticity of the bidder. An estate agent must take due diligence that the bidder is a valid person. It is against the professional code of conduct of both the IPAV and IAVI to accept irregular bids and I am surprised you do not know this! It will also be enforceable in law by the NPSRA that an estate agent has this legal responsibility firmly on his/her doorstep!

I do not know why you think this? It is the estate agents responsibility! A bidder submitting bids would be a joke - Consider the amounts involved here! If an estate agent is "genuinely conned" by a false bidder then the only party that would do this is someone "acting on behalf of the seller" This is against the professional code of conduct of both IPAV and IAVI and will be enforced in law by the NPSRA.

An independent recording will help estate agents that find their credibility questioned and defend them in the ensuing lawsuit that could follow. Lobby I think you have to accept the old days are gone! Tribuneral this, Tribuneral that! People no longer expect high ethics it is their given right!

Gerl, please tell me why this is an independent recording? And how could it be used as a defence?

You've completely missed the point. I'm merely pointing out that if an EA wishes to use false bids, then this website does not prevent it. Or if a vendor wishes to have his "mates" make false bids, then the EA will still (unknowingly) record it on this so called "independent" system. It can't prevent that.

And FYI, vendors are allowed to bid on their own property - even at a public auction!

 

[GerL]

Gerl, please tell me why this is an independent recording? And how could it be used as a defence?

You've completely missed the point. I'm merely pointing out that if an EA wishes to use false bids, then this website does not prevent it. Or if a vendor wishes to have his "mates" make false bids, then the EA will still (unknowingly) record it on this so called "independent" system. It can't prevent that.

And FYI, vendors are allowed to bid on their own property - even at a public auction!

Lobby,

Pardon the sarcastic wit here but:

Independent: Not subject to bias or influence; not obsequious; self-directing

So a system (website) that holds an Independent recording that is not editable by anyone is the same as an estate agent recording the bidding activity on the back of a box of cigarettes in pencil?

Hmmm. Cant you use an eraser to delete these details?

I think it is a valid point! And if you cant see that I just dont know!

FYI: Vendors bidding on their own property will soon be illegal and punishable! If an estate agent is "in on the act" then I am sure no profesional body (IPAV/IAVI) would want such an estate agent as a member of their professional body today?

I think in terms of preventing false bids it comes down to accountability and the ability to prove that someone has acted in a wrongful manner.

Why are you so against something that may actually help your industry?

 

[Lobby]

Lobby,

Pardon the sarcastic wit here but:

Independent: Not subject to bias or influence; not obsequious; self-directing

So a system (website) that holds an Independent recording that is not editable by anyone is the same as an estate agent recording the bidding activity on the back of a box of cigarettes in pencil?

Hmmm. Cant you use an eraser to delete these details?


Why are you so against something that may actually help your industry?

Firstly, as I've said previously, I'm totally in favour of a system that will allow bidders to view other bids.

Your definition of "independent" above does not describe the system as described by apti. Remember it is the EA that submits the bids, so there is no way for Apti to verify them. If an EA wishes to submit false bids then it is just as easy as it is today (and still wrong but thats not what we're discussing).

What does the website do if a bidder withdraws his bid? Or reduces his bid? Will this suddenly look suspicious? It happens frequently. Surely the EA can submit a statement to say a bid is withdrawn.

Any reputable EA should be keeping a bids book today which lists the exact same information as this website suggests.

It's not a simple problem, merely "publishing" the bids book on a website doesn't address the shortcomings of the system. Much much more is needed to be done to make the system more transparent.

Consider the following sample scenario, EA receives bid of 200K on property with AMV of 280K, submits it to system. Vendor gets notified by SMS, asks his sister/brother/mate to ring EA and place bid of 220K. This is a false bid, is unenforceable and is now registered on the system (assuming the EA doesn't recognise the bidder).

How can this be addressed?

I hope the regulator is established and has some teeth, and can penalise heavily rogue EAs. That's probably the only way things will change.

Oh and maybe a register of all sales once they are completed, at least that way folk'll know (albeit after the fact) what the actual sale price was.

 

[GerL]

Libby, To prevent a possible libel action against askaboutmoney, I will stop this discussion with you now. I have stated my positive opinion about such a general type of system and have not referred to the said company in any of my postings directly or in any defamatory way.

I urge you to be careful in your apparent disliking of such a system in what may be perceived to be directed at the said company.

 

[mf1]

Libby, To prevent a possible libel action against askaboutmoney, I will stop this discussion with you now. I have stated my positive opinion about such a general type of system and have not referred to the said company in any of my postings directly or in any defamatory way.

I urge you to be careful in your apparent disliking of such a system in what may be perceived to be directed at the said company.

Huh?

All I saw was a questioning of how effective the proposed system could in reality be? Its a new operation, I'm not aware of it from any of my own clients as to how effective it is, I don't know what EA's are registered, so I can only go on what I read here and what I regard as valid observations of potential shortcomings.

mf

 

[Lobby]

I don't believe there's anything defamatory in here?

Mods, opinion?

If you have enough confidence in a public list of bids from an EA then fair enough, I'm just saying its not enough.

 

[paddyodoors]

Have to agree with Lobby on this, EA controls the bids, nothing to stop them adding false bids, however that said I think it would still be a step above where we are now.

Not sure why the new poster GerL is so passionate about this - any vested interest you want to declare?

Regardless of what happens when you do get to actually use the service, since there is no marketing being done there is no drive to get the EA's to sign up and hence no buy in.

I am in process of buying and EA had never heard of them and have no interest in signing up coz no one else is -

Paddy

 

[GerL]

Have to agree with Lobby on this, EA controls the bids, nothing to stop them adding false bids, however that said I think it would still be a step above where we are now.

Not sure why the new poster GerL is so passionate about this - any vested interest you want to declare?

Regardless of what happens when you do get to actually use the service, since there is no marketing being done there is no drive to get the EA's to sign up and hence no buy in.

I am in process of buying and EA had never heard of them and have no interest in signing up coz no one else is -

Paddy

Paddy?, If you took a little time and read my first post you might have seen where I got my "vested interest". Being a victim of an unregulated esate agent is not great. But I am not alone!

Click here to see last night's primetime: [broken link removed]

I think it is easy to see what side of the fence you are sitting on! Are you buying or selling boss? ;-) oh every thing is grand lots of activity in the market.......

 

[paddyodoors]

Lol

I had read yr first post - great marketing!

If you read my post you will see I am only buying - so would love it if your website worked!

Paddy