Petition to wind up Dunnes Stores

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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This is an extraordinary story as reported in the [broken link removed]

The creditor, Holtglen, has got a judgment for €21m against Dunnes.
Dunnes has not appealed it.
Dunnes is refusing to pay it.
NAMA owns the loans to Holtglen
Holtglen has petitioned for a liquidator to be appointed to Dunnes.

Margaret Heffernan is saying that she will hold NAMA responsible for any damage to the reputation of Dunnes.
In strongly worded letters to Nama chief executive Brendan McDonagh, Ms Heffernan described ...the winding up petition as "an abuse of process".


It cannot be Nama’s belief Dunnes is insolvent and that any petition to wind up Dunnes on grounds of insolvency is justified, she said.
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If they have a judgment, surely there is nothing more to be said. Dunnes must pay it. If they don't, you appoint a liquidator?

Mr Justice Peter Kelly agreed to transfer to the Commercial Court Holtglen's petition. In a situation where Dunnes had not appealed his Commerical Court judgment last March enforcing an arbitrator's award to Holtglen against Dunnes, it was difficult to see how Dunnes has a defence to payment, he said. He was not determining the issues, the judge stressed.
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It's tough enough for ordinary creditors who get judgments who can't get paid, but I would be furious if I had a judgment against Dunnes and couldn't get paid.
 
I expect Dunnes to settle at the 11th hour.

They should be hit with a costs order for this charade.
 
This is pure madness at its best. No doubt the original deal was made in different economic times, they really should discharge their liability in this case before they do untold damage to themselves.

The amount in question is a fair whack and needs to be paid before another ICON of Irish business is pushed aside.
 
leroy67 said:
Irish business ICON's are quickly diminishing :)
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And whether anyone likes them or not, Dunnes Stores are really a part of Irish Life. They commenced trading in Cork many years ago, in times not to dissimilar to what we're in now. Old Ben Dunne got a personal loan and the rest is History. As already stated and in reality the Irish people need Dunnes Stores probably more than Dunnes need the Irish people.

BTW I have no ties with them whatsoever.
 
mercman said:
And whether anyone likes them or not, Dunnes Stores are really a part of Irish Life. They commenced trading in Cork many years ago, in times not to dissimilar to what we're in now. Old Ben Dunne got a personal loan and the rest is History. As already stated and in reality the Irish people need Dunnes Stores probably more than Dunnes need the Irish people.

BTW I have no ties with them whatsoever.
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And whether anyone likes it or not you HAVE to pay your bloody bills...... There could be many many Dunnes Stores started in this country if they all go around refusing to pay millions in debts. If that is their attitude I think I for one would happily do without them.
 
kkelliher said:
If that is their attitude I think I for one would happily do without them.
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And what about all the companies shutting up shop, some by design and the persons traveling over to the UK to rid their debts. We all know some entity or persons in these categories. Its just that Dunnes aren't publicity friendly in Ireland. On a stand alone basis the owners of the company are probably the most generous givers to Irish Charities.

They haven't said they're not going to pay. It's just they have fought the matter against a developer that was possibly going bang anyway.
 
mercman said:
And what about all the companies shutting up shop, some by design and the persons traveling over to the UK to rid their debts. We all know some entity or persons in these categories. Its just that Dunnes aren't publicity friendly in Ireland. On a stand alone basis the owners of the company are probably the most generous givers to Irish Charities.

They haven't said they're not going to pay. It's just they have fought the matter against a developer that was possibly going bang anyway.
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Yes they have said they are not going to pay. This issue has been through an Arbitration process since 2007. Arbitrator sided against Dunnes Stores. Arbitration is binding and without recourse unless refered to the courts on a matter of misconduct by arbitrator. This did not happen. In March 2012, the high court ordered Dunnes to pay the money on foot of the arbitration and they have still failed to do so. In simple terms they have fought the matter and LOST. end of story.

It is irrelevant as to the situation of the developer as his loans were taken over by Nama who are now in charge of the centre therefore NAMA are the developer.

Dont you think that you could be very happy to hand over money to charities and others if you didnt pay a €20 million debt?

I dont see any point of comparing one bad debtor against another? what basis is that to defend non paymnet of this debt which for record effects your own pocket given that the debtor is in fact NAMA ie. the taxpayer.
 
Thanks Big Fella ;)

mercman said:
On a stand alone basis the owners of the company are probably the most generous givers to Irish Charities.
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proof or links ? All of the companies give something tax deductible when they can get free publicity out of it , don't they ?
 
bullworth said:
CJH isnt my idea of a charity ;)

proof or links ? All of the companies give something tax deductible when they can get free publicity out of it , don't they ?
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Tax deductibility is a bit of a red herring for companies that pay only 12.5%. eg They have to spend €1,000 to get €125 in tax relief.
 
As KK points out

The arbitrator made a binding decision - it was not a suggestion.
The High Court granted a judgment - it wasn't a suggestion either.

Everything else is irrelevant. If they are not happy with the development, then they sue the developers. If they want to give money to charity, let them do so, but after paying their lawful debts.

Brendan
 
Well Dunnes obviously feel they have a case.

You cannot predict the outcome of these cases as the conduct of both sides is taken into account.

Would be a good case to attend with Kelly J - takes no prisoners.
 
WizardDr said:
Well Dunnes obviously feel they have a case.

You cannot predict the outcome of these cases as the conduct of both sides is taken into account.
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I am not sure that they think that they have a case. They obviously think that NAMA wouldn't face the public hostility of petitioning for the wind up of Dunnes Stores.

But NAMA rarely has money owing to it from someone who actually can pay, so they are right legally and morally to go for it.

If it will be heard by Kelly J, it would be great entertainment, although I suspect that the lawyers are roaring at Margaret Heffernan to pay it.
 
A very good analysis of Dunnes Stores by Namawinelake here. There were 80 applications against Dunnes Stores in 2011 and there are about the same this year.
 
WizardDr said:
Well Dunnes obviously feel they have a case.

You cannot predict the outcome of these cases as the conduct of both sides is taken into account.

Would be a good case to attend with Kelly J - takes no prisoners.
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They may well have a case and they have already argued it but they LOST already in arbitration therefore its game over on the payment issue. I would be fairly confident mr kelly will enforce the arbitration award and previous court award as there is no appeal open to dunnes on these issues
 
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