outside oil boilers freezing

Yes of course some condensation will occur, but a much better option than frozen water pipes

The mute point, was, as far as the conversation was about central heating pipework as opposed to domestic water

To add antifreeze to domestic heating systems is not required once the system is properly controlled, as in stats for frost, pump overrun etc, as this would negate the need for antifreeze.

IN this country it is hard enough to get householders and plumber to correctly dose systems with the required chemicals such as inhibitor
 
This is like saying run the car every few hours instead of putting antifeeze in.
Suppose ther is a power cut? Also recently the thermostat failed on my boiler and the Hight temp cut out did not work either, fortunatley I was around to hear the system boiling off and switched it off.
 
But your trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer!

So your anti-freeze idea is to protect against those breakdowns of boiler stat failure or pump failure (where your heating is broken down) on those 'how many nights a year' that there is a potential for the system to freeze, and at what cost....200+ euro every 4/5 years??????

Against one or two stats (at a 30 euro cost) that are there to protect the system, at a very low cost of fuel that this would take (it's not like that system will kick in for long to prevent a freeze) and will only use the protection when it is required (on how many nights a year?) when the system
is not already in use

After all, the fact that all decent outside oil modules have frost stats fitted as standard, and practically every gas boiler manufacturer now has frost protection as an on board built-in feature, but hey, all us designers must be wrong eh! We have just worked in the industry for years, looking at all the data, considering failures, breakdowns, ect and attempting to design them out.

If anti-freeze was a viable consideration do you not think this would already be considered a standard practice, as with inhibiting system water, chemical flushing etc.

There is also further considerations, the chemicals you are touting, have not been tested in conjunction with any appliances to my knowledge, so the materials used, from metal, to seals, to plastics etc maybe effected in what manner? If a gasket breaks down as a result an floods a house, or an entire apartment block who is liable?

Lets say there is a failure in the dhw cylinder coil or a non-return valve sticks open, the there is contamination into the domestic water, how would person (or baby/child) be at risk from the anti-freeze?

The method i propose here, is considered an acceptable standard that provides a reasonable means for protection against a domestic heating system freezing in our winter.............the choice is yours
 
Back to my original question, how does the frost stat protect the heating header tank in the attic? which does not have hot water circulating. Fernox is a well proven product go to their website. It seems the designers got it wrong because of all the complaints about freezing up.
 
Don't you mean installers, as in sealed system with the correct protection devices installed...(or an insulated top up tank)

Actually, I give up, your right I am wrong, go spend your money and do as you please......afterall there is always one

Fernox launched this product for SOLAR!

Happy xmas and goodnight, from the artic pole of Ireland
 
Do the central heating timers just act as switches, when you set the heating to switch off does it just cut the power to the burner. If this is the case would the burner have any power to fire up to protect against frost. Is it a case that plumbers and electrcians just take shortcuts when setting these up.

Another problem I've encountered is the over heat thermostat cutting out due to residual heat when the burner swithces off, how is this prevented.
 
Overrun stats would have a permanent live feed from the 5amp spur that supplies power to the timeclock to allow override

Your residual overheats can be avoided but fitting a pipe stat (not set below 55deg) wired to the pump, this will shunt and residual heat left in the boiler into the house avoiding those overheats
 
Thanks, useful info. I'll look into getting one fitted as it's a bit of a nuisance. It doesn't seem to happen to any of the neighbours, I've turned the thermostat down to "2" but still seems to happen, not as much though. Could it be a fault with the safety thermostat?
 
hey dgobs, imo don't think the pump-overrun is shifting the residual heat left between boiler and boiler casing where the frost stat is located, happened to two of my new enviormax's the piping froze in no time.

I think the manufacturers need to design a stat which is inn direct contact with outside air temp. but this will create its one problems as stat will fire boiler all too often.

wot do you think?
 
Yes, the old outside stats were always a better idea (like with the weather compensators)

What part of the country are you located?
 
mullingar, have never fitted a weather compensator as part of a boiler- rad system, have only seen it fitted as part of ufheating package think it was system-links , do you think its feasible for a domestic situation?
 
Yes, there is reasonably priced ones about, but even external stats would do
 
DGOBS is quite correct. All outside boilers and even boiler house models should have a frost stat installed. Newer outdoor models have them fitted by the manufacturer but they do require a permanent live to them and not taken from the timeclock live to the boiler. Many installations I have come across do not have this.
Frost stats normally kick in at +4C and turn off when the temperature surrounding the stat rises above this temperature.
I would recommend installing an additional pipe stat, fitted to the flow pipe from the boiler and set to 30C. This will turn off the boiler when the water within the flow pipe reaches 30C.
If your heating system is zoned by motorized valves, ensure the frost stat is wired to one of these to open same, otherwise the pump could be pumping against a closed circuit. Alternatively fit an automatic bypass valve between the positive side of the pump and the return pipe, set to 400mBar. This will create an open circuit around the boiler. Manufacturers recommend the latter.
 
DGOBS said:
....Lets say there is a failure in the dhw cylinder coil or a non-return valve sticks open, the there is contamination into the domestic water, how would person (or baby/child) be at risk from the anti-freeze?...
Click to expand...

If this also an issue with inhibitors?
 
I thought it went into all the water hot and cold that isn't mains fed.

Kids do a lot of odd things
 
Heating circuit pipes are completely separate from domestic hot and cold water. The only place the meet is at the coil that passes through the hot water cylinder, hence heating the domestic hot water supply.
 
Originally you said "domestic hot water" now you say "domestic hot and cold water". They also meet where main water gets into the heating loop. if theres a problem it can back fill into the domestic loop. DGOBS said that earlier, and also if the coil fails it will get in at the cylinder either.
 
Of course they meet at the filling loop, however, only whilst filling. Filling loops should be disconnected once filled, as per building regs. Automatic filling loops are no longer allowed.
I only said about hot and cold because you said "I thought it went into all the water hot and cold that isn't mains fed."
 
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