Our Sick HSE

[Firefly]

Simply a disgrace. So many cuts to services and this happens (Doesn't say much for the nurses involved either)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...to-record-reduced-working-hours-30968876.html

Selected:

The worker, who was on reduced hours between 2002 until retirement in 2010, received €191,225 in total before the overpayment was eventually discovered.

There were 1,144 overpayments totalling €2.4m

An employee who resigned from a permanent health service job in October 2008 was overpaid €46,373 because notice of her departure was not made to the payroll department until the following June

Three full-time nurses were double-jobbing in breach of rules.

The nurses were hired on the generous agency rates while also on a full-time salary. Three other nurses were retired, but getting their full pension on top of the agency fees.

One of the full-time nurses worked in the same hospital in which she was doing agency work.

Absenteeism was as high as 14pc among management and administrators in the neurology department

And the best part

The damning audit on wastage comes a day after HSE chief Tony O'Brien warned that providing the €430,000-a-year per patient for a drug for patients suffering a rare disease would force cuts in other services.

Firefly.

 

[Purple]

None of this is any surprise

 

[Leper]

Purple is not surprised; neither am I and remember the above was carried out in just one geographical area of the country. Remember the PPARS project a few years aga (new payroll and personnel computer system in the Health Service). Newspaper reports indicated it cost the taxpayer €140,000,000.00 and it failed before the first payroll run and was abandoned. So why would and overpayment of €46,000.00 be a big deal?

Was anybody sacked for any of the above posts?
Was anybody demoted?
Was there an investigation?
Was anybody held responsible?

 

[Purple]

Leper, you can be sure the answers to your four questions is no, no, no and no. In that order.
The solution to a proper payroll system is a simplification and standardisation of employee contracts, T's & C's and pay. Then an off the shelf system could be implemented.
It would be interesting to know how many people work in payroll and HR in the HSE. I suspect it costs the state many tens of millions, most of which could be avoided with a more efficient and standardised system. Add to that it is far more likely that errors and overpayments are made the more Byzantine the system is. Yet another example of how no matter how hard working the employees are they will still be inefficient within an inefficient structure. Yet another example of how change and the avoidance of waste are stymied by the bloodsucking Unions as the first thing they do is stuck out their grubb, greedy paws for more money.

 

[Leper]

. . . . Yet another example of how change and the avoidance of waste are stymied by the bloodsucking Unions as the first thing they do is stuck out their grubb, greedy paws for more money.

Purple, For the life of me I cannot see how the unions were responsible for staff overpayments and again I see no input to the failure of the infamous PPARS system being attributed to any union. It's the management, stupid! Don't ignore the obvious, if it looks like cancer, it is cancer; it's not a nosebleed!

I'm just stopping short of sending you a rebouncing punchbag with "Trades Unions" written on the side.

 

[Deiseblue]

In the same issue of the Indo ( 6/2/2015) was a far more disturbing audit fallout - the headline read " Revenue move on almost 5,000 businesses ".
The Revenue issued a record number of attachment orders to 4,935 businesses in 2014 targeting a staggering €161,000,000.
The results of the HSE audit were disturbing but my God this is in a complete different universe !

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Let's put this is perspective

There were 1,144 overpayments totalling €2.4m, of which 34 ranged from €10,000 to €30,000. Seven ranged from €30,000 to €200,000.

How many employees does the HSE actually have?
Over what period were these overpayments made? One, at least, was for 10 years?
What percentage of the total payroll bill over those 10(?) years is €2.4m?

I cannot see why the Trade Unions are being blamed for this.

In another case of poor control of public money, an employee who resigned from a permanent health service job in October 2008 was overpaid €46,373 because notice of her departure was not made to the payroll department until the following June.

Did those employees not report it? Is this not the equivalent of theft? If I get paid €1,100 a month, instead of €1,050, I might not notice it. But if I switch to part-time and my salary remains the same, I would notice it. If I quit my job, and my employer continues paying me, I would let my employer know.

Brendan

 

[Deiseblue]

Let's put this is perspective

There were 1,144 overpayments totalling €2.4m, of which 34 ranged from €10,000 to €30,000. Seven ranged from €30,000 to €200,000.

How many employees does the HSE actually have?
Over what period were these overpayments made? One, at least, was for 10 years?
What percentage of the total payroll bill over those 10(?) years is €2.4m?

I cannot see why the Trade Unions are being blamed for this.

In another case of poor control of public money, an employee who resigned from a permanent health service job in October 2008 was overpaid €46,373 because notice of her departure was not made to the payroll department until the following June.

Did those employees not report it? Is this not the equivalent of theft? If I get paid €1,100 a month, instead of €1,050, I might not notice it. But if I switch to part-time and my salary remains the same, I would notice it. If I quit my job, and my employer continues paying me, I would let my employer know.

Brendan

+ 1 , to blame Trade Unions for this is plainly ridiculous & purely a misplaced unthinking knee jerk reaction hinting at a degree of myopia and obsession .

 

[Firefly]

In the same issue of the Indo ( 6/2/2015) was a far more disturbing audit fallout - the headline read " Revenue move on almost 5,000 businesses ".
The Revenue issued a record number of attachment orders to 4,935 businesses in 2014 targeting a staggering €161,000,000.
The results of the HSE audit were disturbing but my God this is in a complete different universe !

Hi Deise,

I completely agree - it's a shambles. If people just paid the tax they were legally meant to and if people reported over-payments, the country would be a lot better off.

Firefly.

 

[Purple]

Purple, For the life of me I cannot see how the unions were responsible for staff overpayments and again I see no input to the failure of the infamous PPARS system being attributed to any union. It's the management, stupid! Don't ignore the obvious, if it looks like cancer, it is cancer; it's not a nosebleed!

I'm just stopping short of sending you a rebouncing punchbag with "Trades Unions" written on the side.

I'm not blaming the Trade Unions for this. I'm saying that they are a block to improving the structures and systems that lead to these issues and the many more like them that lead to massive waste and inefficiencies. They are certainly not the only obstacle but they are certainly part of the problem. Inefficient and ineffectual management is also a large part of the problem.

A question for you;
If the management proposed changes that would save the tax payer money and deliver better services but would also result in a large reduction of staff in administrative functions while forcing the standardisation of contracts and work practices, with no increase in pay, would the Unions agree to those changes? I suggest that they would not and that presumption on the part of management is a reason that they don't try to change things.

 

[Purple]

+ 1 , to blame Trade Unions for this is plainly ridiculous & purely a misplaced unthinking knee jerk reaction hinting at a degree of myopia and obsession .

As you didn't read my post you don't know what point I made. If you did read my post you would see that I made a different point.

 

[Purple]

In the same issue of the Indo ( 6/2/2015) was a far more disturbing audit fallout - the headline read " Revenue move on almost 5,000 businesses ".
The Revenue issued a record number of attachment orders to 4,935 businesses in 2014 targeting a staggering €161,000,000.
The results of the HSE audit were disturbing but my God this is in a complete different universe !

Good point.
Was that all taxes due or did it include interest and penalties?
What does that represent as a proportion of the taxes paid by businesses in 2014?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

As you didn't read my post you don't know what point I made. If you did read my post you would see that I made a different point.

To be fair to Deiseblue I could not see why you brought the Trade Unions into this, except to somehow blame them for the payroll issue.

I have reread you post, but I don't really know what other point you are making.

Brendan

 

[Leper]

To be fair to Deiseblue I could not see why you brought the Trade Unions into this, except to somehow blame them for the payroll issue.

I have reread you post, but I don't really know what other point you are making.

Brendan

Newsflash!!!!! Brendan . . . try and look benignly at any trades union reference here . . . Déise was being ironic . . . with Purple, of course and he saved me the trouble . . . and I know you are probably getting somewhat confused that Purple is even agreeing with some of what I say.

Nice One Déise and the hurling is only starting this weekend (Feel free to amplify this with Brendan . . .)

 

[Purple]

To be fair to Deiseblue I could not see why you brought the Trade Unions into this, except to somehow blame them for the payroll issue.

I have reread you post, but I don't really know what other point you are making.

Brendan

OK, I'm surprised that you can't, even with my later posts explaining it again but if you can't see it you can't see it.

 

[Purple]

Newsflash!!!!! Brendan . . . try and look benignly at any trades union reference here . . . Déise was being ironic . . . with Purple, of course and he saved me the trouble . . . and I know you are probably getting somewhat confused that Purple is even agreeing with some of what I say.

I often agree with you but I don't see where Déise was being ironic. Vitriolic maybe, but not ironic.
I have a problem with any group or body that is a party to the waste and incompetence that blights so many aspects and areas of this country. Luckily in most cases, but certainly not all cases, private businesses go bust if they are incompetent. If they are large enough they get bailed out by the rest of us but if they are state run they just plod along causing no end of harm to all those around them and many within them.
If the owners of private businesses can be shown to have deliberately evaded their taxes they should go to prison, with a fine which more than covers the cost. This isn't them and us, we are all damaged by waste and criminality. We should all rail against it.

 

[Leper]

Purple, You're at it again; you're an awful man. Drop me a line and I'll send that rebounding punchbag to you complete with a face with a beard. I'm on my way to the bottle bank to relieve stress by hopping a few empty wine bottles off the wall of the bin . . . great for stress . . . the drive back from the bottle bank is so refreshing stopping off at a nice friendly pub . . . and Oh! Barman, I'll have another Guinness . . .pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Déise, what's yours? and Purple, you'll have a Jameson?

 

[amtc]

I worked in the DSP for a few months last year and we were underpaid. I complained and received an email to say it would be paid in a few weeks (August 2014). I had also copied it to my TD Joan Burton who is also the Minister and I was told off for 'using my influence'. I have since left - the amount of money is not huge, maybe €300. I enquired last week as to where the arrears were and received an email to say 'work was more complex than expected'....

 

[jjm]

amtc Your words not mine I was told off for using my influence .Was it Joan who got you in.