Worth noting that despite the security, flexibility etc, a few people I know left the civil service purely because of the above mentioned reasons.
Crony-ism (sp) and politics in the workplace
THis is an over-simplification. The UK civil service still has [broken link removed]. It does indeed recruit into [broken link removed]directly, as does .Other comparable public sector organsiations (e.g. Euro Commission, UK civil service) recruit directly to positions rather than having the Irish system of panels.
THis is an over-simplification. The UK civil service still has [broken link removed]. It does indeed recruit into [broken link removed]directly, as does ..
My experiences with many private businesses is that the higher you go, the more generic your skills are. Senior managers are senior managers, whether they came from IT, finance or marketing backgrounds. They will frequently switch roles & responsibilities to develop their own skills. It's not that different really.
Salary - must start at point 1 on scale
If you can prove that your current salary is higher, you can start on the 4th point of the scale which would be 5-6k higher thus bringing the salary close to your current job. This is not advertised - you have to ask for it and back it up with P60s to prove. You can also use previous work experience for same i.e. if you can prove that you did a job of similar skill for up to 4 years, you may also start on the 4th point. The decision will be up to the Personnel Officer in whatever Dept you are appointed to, but in most cases they give in if they think that the applicant will refuse the job for salary reasons. Best approach is to ring them and say you want to take the job, but the salary is a lot lower than current and you cannot accept it at the rate offered.
Far away hills are greener. The UK central website currently has [broken link removed] available, including one junior admin position and one fixed-term contract, so I don't expect that UK-based HR staff will be doing huge amounts of career planning looking for promotions here.With respect, I think THIS represents an over simplification. The UK's recourse to recruitment of specialist skills is far more frequent and wide ranging. For example, HR is treated as a specialist skill wheras in the Irish equivalent, it's just one of the positions into which you might be assigned if you happen to occupy the grade at which the vacancy arises.
Similarly, in the UK, if you operate in, say, HR at a partcular level, it's possible to highlight other HR posts or promotional opportunities across the UK civil service as a whole and to plot a career path that doesn't require you to move away from your core competency. The same HR profesional in the Irsh sysrtem might well be promoted but it would be rare for them to move to a position that built on their direct HR expertise or experience.
i know people who've benefitted from this, particularly at AO level.
Are you sure that your information on this is current, and applies to new joiners to the public/civil service? I understood that Dept Finance had very strict guidelines about starting on the lowest point in the scale, except in cases where this had been agreed prior to the starting of the recruitment.
For comparative purposes, the includes specialist positions for diplomats, HSE clerical officers, ICT staff, ICT staff specifically for Dept of Agriculture, HEO Employment Assistance Officer (a HR role!), accountants for Dept Justice, and auditors, and this ignores truly specialist roles like Gardai, Firefighters and EMTs.
I don't think it is fair to diss the Irish service and sign the praises of the UK service.
If you go to the civil service personnel website - [broken link removed]
And look at the "starting pay" section, you'll see reference to a document called "28/04/1994 LP Conf. Confidential - starting salary at open competitions " dating from 1994. So the rules havent changed in recent years.
Indeed, my direct personal experience is directly related to the broader public service, rather than the CS. Though like most public servants, I do of course engage with the CS and Public Appointments Service from time to time.Without second guessing your public sector experience, I suspect it's not based on the CS in particular.The list you offer includes various positions in the wider public sector (HSE, Gardai,etc). I was referring to the civil service in particular which was the original subject of the thread.
Not much that I'd disagree with there. Did your research look at what happens when specific posts dissappear through a change in government or change in policy?That the Irish CS recruits directly to some positions is not not evidence that the practice is as widescale as it perhaps should be. Whether there's a value making the process more widespread in clearly a matter of opinion but I certainly think it's worthy of consideration. I've done some research around this to support a thesis a couple of years ago and I believe that benefits would accrue to managers, jobholders and, ultimately, the general public. I know of many disaffected managers and jobholders who are frustrated by an absence of any policy which seeks to match people to jobs that match their skills. As I mentioned previously, the system requires the success of coincidence.
You can't get it that way, its exempt under section 21(1)(c)Try an FOI request.
Did your research look at what happens when specific posts dissappear through a change in government or change in policy?
If you go to the civil service personnel website - [broken link removed]
And look at the "starting pay" section, you'll see reference to a document called "28/04/1994 LP Conf. Confidential - starting salary at open competitions " dating from 1994. So the rules havent changed in recent years.
To be honest, no. This didn't present itself as an issue but I'd be genuinely interested to know how likely an occurance this is. The only example I can think of is the redeployment of customs officers after the EU became a single market. AFAIK they were offered administrative positions throughout the civil service. Doubtless this would have required a more imaginative solution in my perfect world but that's not to say the issue couldn't have been overcome.
Promotion is competence based - if you can demonstrate the ability you will get the job.