NPPR tax: Time divided between owned property & rented property. How PPR determined?

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I'm assuming you are talking about your owned home. But did you ask about the place that you rent ?

I always assumed, as I stated in previous post, that ownership was the key factor in determining NPPR -and the council reponse seems to confirm that.
But other posters, in this and other threads, stated that it made no difference whether a place was owned or rented - one of them must be your NPPR and thus the charge had to be paid on that one ,owned or rented. (as in Sybil's or Callybag's posts a few posts back).
So, I apologised for my "error".

But now the council says you are not liable for NPPR ? Not anywhere? That is, you can own one house and rent another and that's that - no NPPR ??

So confusing....
 
Your PPR is where you overnight most of nights of the tax year, regardless of whether you own it or not. e.g. if you usually spend 4 nights a week in property A and 3 nights a week in property B, then A is your PPR.

NPPR tax is paid on a house you own, but is not your PPR. Using the example above, if you rented A and owned B, you are liable for NPPR tax on B.
 
Yes, the general opinion including that of the NPPR site confirms that if you own or rent a proeprty that you don't stay in most of tiem then that is a NPPR (although the actual Act only specifies 31 March )

That's why I'm confused as to why the OP was told that he doesnt have to pay an NPPR charge -if,indeed, he was told that.
 
csirl said:
Your PPR is where you overnight most of nights of the tax year, regardless of whether you own it or not. e.g. if you usually spend 4 nights a week in property A and 3 nights a week in property B, then A is your PPR.
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Have you an authoritative source for this view? Although perhaps a useful guideline, I doubt if it is legally watertight. Otherwise perhaps a person who works nights could end up with their workplace as their PPR and a student might find that their college digs is their PPR, even though they would have no continuing right of occupation there.
 
T McGibney said:
Have you an authoritative source for this view? Although perhaps a useful guideline, I doubt if it is legally watertight. Otherwise perhaps a person who works nights could end up with their workplace as their PPR and a student might find that their college digs is their PPR, even though they would have no continuing right of occupation there.
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Revenue has definative rules for this. Obviously common sense applies to night shift people - its where they go home to sleep when they've finished work! PPR has nothing to do with continuing residency or property ownership - its all about where you spend most of your time. Yes, a student's or temporary workers PPR may well be temporary digs for the period of time that they are away from home depending on the number of nights etc. spent there during the tax year.

Your Principal Private Residency is what it says on the tin - the place that you live most of the time.
 
I would suggest that the Revenue guidelines, as least their [broken link removed] on the subject as published under FOI, are not at all clear, and appear questionable in a number of respects. For example, I would question their contention, in section 3.2 (ii) of the notes, that a hotel room could be one's PPR, unless of course they are perhaps talking about the Major in Fawlty Towers.

I highlighted a number of ambiguous situations in a blog post earlier this year and it seems that the more one delves into this subject, the more complicated it becomes.
 
oldnick said:
I'm assuming you are talking about your owned home. But did you ask about the place that you rent ?

I always assumed, as I stated in previous post, that ownership was the key factor in determining NPPR -and the council reponse seems to confirm that.
But other posters, in this and other threads, stated that it made no difference whether a place was owned or rented - one of them must be your NPPR and thus the charge had to be paid on that one ,owned or rented. (as in Sybil's or Callybag's posts a few posts back).
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Confusing is right - a tenant would never be liable for NPPR - it's levied on the owner only.

What I said was that if you owned a house and didn't live in it then you (as owner) are liable to NPPR regardless of what you do with the house or where else you live.

Sybil
 
Ursus said:
Council reply to my query say I am not liable for the NPPR charge. So that's that sorted. Thanks to all for contributions.
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It would be useful for others if you stated what you wrote in your letter to the county council.
 
T McGibney said:
I would suggest that the Revenue guidelines, as least their [broken link removed] on the subject as published under FOI, are not at all clear, and appear questionable in a number of respects. For example, I would question their contention, in section 3.2 (ii) of the notes, that a hotel room could be one's PPR, unless of course they are perhaps talking about the Major in Fawlty Towers.

I highlighted a number of ambiguous situations in a blog post earlier this year and it seems that the more one delves into this subject, the more complicated it becomes.
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You're quoting guidelines on Capital Gains Tax on the disposal of a PPR, the guidelines for the NPPR may well be different.
 
Look -we all agree that it can be confusing. Most posters seem to think that one pays NPPR charge on a residential property in ireland that one owns or rents if that property is not the sole or main residence. The nppr website suggests this is so.

But the Act - and it probably needs an expert to fully understand it - says one must pay the charge if on the 31 March one owns a property if that property is not the sole or main residence.

It's the Act that counts, not general opinions, - so ,if someone cleverer than me can translate it then we'd all have a clearer picture for those situations as per OP's .
 
It's very straightforward.

If you own a property in the state on 31st March, and this property is not your PPR, then you are liable for the tax on that property.

Where you are living or if you are renting is irrelevant.

The only opssible gray area is establishing your PPR on the 31st March.
 
The only opssible gray area is establishing your PPR on the 31st March.
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While people moving house is covered, and the liability of people who have being living in one place (whether they own/rent etc.) is also clear from the Act, there is one gray area.

The normal definition of PPR is in the Taxes Consolidation Acts and its where ever you spent the most days (183 or more) in the previous tax year. Take the following example.

Joe Bloggs owns a house. He moves out into rented accommodation in October 2010. On March 31st 2011, the house he moved out of is still officially his PPR as its where he spent the most time in the most recent tax year (2010). His house does not cease to become a PPR until at least mid way through 2011 i.e. after the March deadline. Is he liable for the payment in 2011?
 
csirl said:
The normal definition of PPR is in the Taxes Consolidation Acts and its where ever you spent the most days (183 or more) in the previous tax year. Take the following example.
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This is the definition for residency in the country, not PPR

csirl said:
Joe Bloggs owns a house. He moves out into rented accommodation in October 2010. On March 31st 2011, the house he moved out of is still officially his PPR as its where he spent the most time in the most recent tax year (2010). His house does not cease to become a PPR until at least mid way through 2011 i.e. after the March deadline. Is he liable for the payment in 2011?
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The house ceases being his PPR in October 2010 and NPPR is due in March 2011 regardless of what he is doing with the house.
 
dereko1969 said:
One is run by Revenue, the other by the County Councils.
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The legal concept of 'principal private residence'' is well established, as are the principles that underlie it. The introduction of a new tax based on such principles does not affect them. It is not simply a matter of Revenue or the Dept of Finance rewriting the rules whenever it suits them.
 
Is the 31st of March a "deadline" or is it the actual date when someone has or has not more than one property for the npurpose of paying the NPPR charge ?

E.G. I own a house - but buy another house in April 2011 in which I live for eleven months before selling it in March 2012. So, on 31 March 2012 I only have one house.
Hence no NPPR charge, regardless that I had two houses for 90% of the year and didnt live in one at all for those 11 months.

I don't understand the "deadline" thing in previous posts- and I can't find the section in the Act that talks about what property is lived in for such-and-such a period.

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Whether you own a second house or not is immaterial.

The NPPR is payable if, on 31 March, you own a house that you don't live in.

If you rented 7 different houses for an entire year because you had more money than sense and didn't like to sleep in the same house twice in a week but you didn't own any house then you pay NO NPPR.

If you own one house and don't live in it because it's a one bed flat in Donegal and you had triplets and your job moved to Cork then you DO pay NPPR.

Sorry to be getting into ridiculous scenarios but I don't understand the confusion.

Sybil
 
oldnick said:
Yes, the general opinion including that of the NPPR site confirms that if you own or rent a proeprty that you don't stay in most of tiem then that is a NPPR (although the actual Act only specifies 31 March )

That's why I'm confused as to why the OP was told that he doesnt have to pay an NPPR charge -if,indeed, he was told that.
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I have the email to prove it.
 
My confusion is why the Op who states he spends all the time in a rented accommodation and not the house he owns is not liable to NPPR on that property.
That's why I'm looking at every angle. I agree entirely about the 31 March date.Not a deadline but a definite date.
 
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