No payrises in benchmarking ? "Shock"
- Thread starter Pique318
- Start date
According to the 2008 Book of Estimates, the Civil Service pay & allowances (A1 subhead) cost is:
€1,466,813,000
Civil Service pension costs is:
€265,159,000
Total Cost = €1,831,972,000
Assuming that there are c.2 million workers in the country, it costs approx. €916 per annum per taxpayer to fund the pay, pensions and allowances of the entire Civil Service.
20% of €916 per week would mean each taxpayer would have to pay €183 per year less tax i.e. a saving of c.€3.50 per week !!!!
Cost of Civil Service has little impact on the Budget. The big spending is on the "programme" side and the big wage bill is for non-civil servants, mainly employed by private organisations, who's pay is indirectly funded by taxpayers through programme costs.
Grand. I will take it. Better off in my pocket
Simplistically speaking, 20% of 1.8 Billion is 360 Million.
Now I wonder if we could do with 360 million extra in the exchequer every year?
Oh yeah, that's right, we could have dry schools, or hospitals with actual beds in actual rooms, or maybe roads without potholes, or a contract hit on every politician so they do their job properly or the hitman does 'his' properly
Note: (ok, ok you have to take out the amount contributed in tax by those people, but assuming they get another job somewhere it'll all balance out...ish)
Now I wonder if we could do with 360 million extra in the exchequer every year?
Oh yeah, that's right, we could have dry schools, or hospitals with actual beds in actual rooms, or maybe roads without potholes, or a contract hit on every politician so they do their job properly or the hitman does 'his' properly
Note: (ok, ok you have to take out the amount contributed in tax by those people, but assuming they get another job somewhere it'll all balance out...ish)
ubiquitous
Registered User
- Messages
- 3,782
This doesn't sound right. Are you sure about your statistics?
Afaik, the Health Service budget is around €10 billion per year. The education budget is also several billions per year. A large part of both is accounted for by staff costs. On that basis, an estimate of €2 billion as the annual cost of the civil service pay bill sounds hopelessly optimistic.
Here’s a few reasons why I’d rather not work in public service…..ambition, job satisfaction, dealing with clients (as in actually helping/assisting them) working to my potential, I’d be bored silly twiddling my thumbs at work all day, using the skills I picked up in my degree & professional studies….
A few reasons why I’d like to work there…….job security, lack of accountability, lots of holidays, I’d like to improve my golf swing, pensions, pensions, pensions, short working day but long lunch breaks, pay rises don’t seem to be based on ability merely time in job!
So in simple terms those entering the public sector have no ambition and work within themselves whilst private sector sees those with ambition and drive and are in it to provide the best possible service. If that is the case then why can't private sector employees simply get on with their ambitious, driven careers and not take pot shots at those that they obviously look down on.
The internal politics can be nothing short of poisonous in a lot of cases - that's the main thing that would put me off.
Health Service staff are not Civil Servants, they are Public Servants, so most likely aren't included in csirl's figures.
No, its not the people it’s the system/structure that doesn’t allow ambition or hard work to prosper, I’ve spoken to enough folk who are expected to take the ½ hour tea break in the morning and full lunch break, unions have negotiated work conditions to such an extent that it seems minimal amounts of work and efficiency are expected
There are very few civil servants working in either the health or education sectors (asides from departmental staff).
The vast majority of schools and hospitals in Ireland are privately owned organisations who's staff costs are paid out of State funding they receive. Though the wages paid to these staff members are ultimately paid out of taxpayers money, they are NOT State employees - they remain as employees of the private organisation that owns the school/hospital. The majority of these private organisations may well be religious order owned non-profit organisations, but, nevertheless, they are not owned by the State and the owners e.g. the religious order, actually employ the employees.
Ireland doesnt really have a public sector health or education service. What we have is public services that are provided by private sector organisations who receive funding from the State for the provision of these services.
Most Health sector and education sector workers, though referred to as "public servants" by most people are not public sector workers - they are private sector workers who work in public services.
They are paid out of my pocket by the government and they fulfil the definition of a public sector i.e. job for life, can’t be sacked, pension that they don’t pay for, short hours and long holidays and pay increases for just being there.
The rest is semantics.
Lets not fool ourselves, the people of the banana republic are most happy with this situation, and the quality of public services, sure haven't they elected the same Government for the last 10, and soon to be 15 years!
According to the benchmarking body - its report said the cost of its recommendations would be around €50m a year, representing an average increase of 0.3% in total pay costs.
If 50million is .3%, then the total cost is 16.666 Billion (or am I off in my maths here?) Either way, what is covered by benchmarking (and thus this topic) is a hell of a lot more than the 1 and a half billion mentioned.
R
rabbit
Guest
As someone else said, the German Ambasador was so spot on a few months ago ...... the world laughs at us. The public sector has pay , pensions and conditions way out of line with that "enjoyed" by the private sector, which pays for it all.
"SIPTU (said it) would examine the report over the coming weeks, but warned that increasing disparities in pay between middle and junior public servants and higher and top level public servants were 'not sustainable'."
Wow! They compare with private sector, and then switch to higher sector public servants when it suits them. What next? Benchmarking against Bill Gates?
Wow! They compare with private sector, and then switch to higher sector public servants when it suits them. What next? Benchmarking against Bill Gates?
This is more political that legal.
For example, if the Government decided not to use a particular hospital for whatever reason for the provision of public services, it would have no LEGAL responsibility to the employees. It would be up to the owners of the hospital to either lay off the staff and pay redundancy or find alternative private medical work to enable them to afford to keep the staff. Legally speaking, the Government is not responsible for the employees.
However, for political reasons, our politicians have decide not to do this. And even where the State decides to stop using hospitals, our politicians decide to bail out the employees usually giving all the former employees jobs in other hospitals or new hospitals.
Though watch this issue over the coming years. There are potential procurement problems ahead in that none of these private sector organisations appear to have ever won their contracts through a competitive tender !!!