New Ireland Assurance fees commission charges

mercman I know, I'm just wondering why he would suggest it. I too am wondering about NI accounting skills in New Ireland so why would i need a solicitor. Horses for courses..
 
My suggestion would be to go the route of Regulator / Ombudsman first .You have stated above that New Ireland have admitted that they are happy with their figures .

So a final response letter should be a formality .

You will find that the Regulator/ Ombudsman have access to Actuaries , and if it was me , I would prefer to allow the proper authorities to use this service .

Actuaries are expensive , and at the end of the day you may still not be satisfied with their outcome alone .
 
tenchi-fan said:
Your query is unreasonable. Not only that, it's also pointless, as the value of €1 10 years ago in today's money is much higher than the value of €1 today. So there's no point in adding them together to get €2.

Why not do a quick calculation.. if you paid €100,000 in over the years and the entry charge is 5%, you paid €5000 in entry charges. If the current fund value is €120,000 and the management charge is 1%, you pay approx €1200 a year. What have you to gain from knowing the exact fund management charge you paid 10 years ago?
Click to expand...

In reality, it's almost impossible to calculate the actual charges being applied on such investments. It's possible that an actualy could do it, but it would be a hugely expensive exercize and would have to make many assumptions. I think that they could only estimate the figure.

It's not like a bank account where you have a balance of €600 and they charge you €5 so you have €595 left.

When I was on the Consumer Panel of the Financial Regulator, we brought up this issue - in general, not just for life companies. We had to rely on the FR checking that the correct charges were being applied. I can't remember the detail, but the FR was happy that charges were being applied correctly.

I agree that there would be little point in looking back at ten years.

Brendan
 
Brendan, while policy charges have simplified a lot in recent years, I understand old policies had some pretty bizarre charging structures.

I just don't know what the op is trying to prove. She is obviously not happy with something about the policy. I imagine the value is less than she expects it should be so she's complaining about the policy charges. If the case is taken to the ombudsman they'll just tell the op "everything looks fine."

On the other hand, if she is claiming she was not made aware of the management charges and she explicitly said she didn't want life cover yet life cover ended up on the policy, she has a mis-selling case against the broker who sold her the policy.

i suggest the op should deal directly with the life co, or if a large amount of money is involved she may choose to ask a solicitor to deal with the life co on her behalf to add weight to the letters.

The actuary route is just a waste of money. If a management charge is calculated on a daily basis, just where is the actuary going to get the daily fund values over 10 years?

Also, what was ok about the policy for the first 8 years that suddenly the op has a major issue with? The banking crisis?

I think the op needs to recognise what outcome she's looking for, rather than the satisfaction of saying "so I WAS paying high management fees!"
 
I agree with you. But I have seen it before, that people want to check that the charges applied were the charges agreed. It's just not possible to do that without an expensive actuarial exercize.

On the other hand, if she is claiming she ...explicitly said she didn't want life cover yet life cover ended up on the policy, she has a mis-selling case against the broker who sold her the policy.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the Elite fund is a life policy. She is not getting any life insurance other than the refund of her investments on death. So she is not being charged for it.

Brendan
 
Thank you Brendan for your insight. Tenchi first of all I never said I was paying a high management fee unless you are a QFA and have reconised this fact. The only thing I would say is: In my humble opinion I should be able to take a look at my statement and see what charges have been applied. I shouldnt have to higher and Actuary or Solicitor and I shouldnt have to accept from NI that the charges are correct, instead I should be able to view this for myself. The fact that I have to, implies that these statements are missing important information. Furthermore, If New Ireland has said that they are happy with the figures, what's wrong in allowing me an oportunity to view these. Why are you so annoyed at me asking these questions? The other point I will make is simply this; they chose to deduct the charges on a daily basis and if this presents a problem then its a problem they have made for themselves. Why is the insurance industry allowed to operate in this fashion. I am not a wiz kid in the financial world and so I went to New Ireland to be guided by a QFA. In order to make a decision on where I need to be and in order to instruct a QFA I need to have a full picture of what their charges amount to. I dont think I am committing a crime. Perhaps its about time that everybody was able to view these charges in €'s. The other thing is I never said I lost money. Discussion is a healthy thing and it might just switch a light on in many a clients head. Perhaps other people will check their statement and see for themselves that I have merely brought their attention to the obvious. The subject matter might be a little too close to reality but like it or not everybody should be entitled to know what has been deducted from their investment. Perhaps, the charges levied against my investment might well be an eye opener for the public. I expect to pay these charges, I really dont have a problem with being charged but I expect to know what they amount to in the € sense.
 
I worked in a life assurance company and during my time there dealt with plenty of customers requesting "statements"! That's why I know you're wasting your time. If really is that difficult, when you take into account policy fees, management charges, entry charges, exit charges, life cover costs, initial and premium units, conversion of units, taxation, and of course the time value of money!

I'm not getting annoyed. I just don't see your point. To say "I shouldnt have to accept from NI that the charges are correct, instead I should be able to view this for myself" is ridiculous.

You clearly agreed to the charging structure even though you didn't understand it. On a yearly basis they tell you how much you've paid in, the current value, and any other information they are legally required to. If you don't like the way they do business simply take your business elsewhere.

If I bought a car I wouldn't expect the salesman to know how the engine worked, and I wouldn't expect the car's manufacturer to explain it to me. I'd just be happy the car was doing what I paid for!
 
Ridiculous or not if charges were taken then what were they. Why do they want to shroud it in secrecy From what your saying it cant be quantified and if that's the case then how was it charged. Would the true cost be that shocking. Perhaps, you can explain why it is rediculous for New Ireland to show these charges in a statement.

In regards to the car analogy that's rediculous as it doesnt relate to what I want to know.

Why should I take my business elsewhere for asking a question? If people don't speak up then changes will never happen.
 
difficulty in Quantify charges

Hi why can't they quantify charges if they had deducted them they should be able to show what they were. Can you explain this?
 
Why are people not questioning this policy. There are millions invested with New Ireland and yet not one of its clients knows exactly what they are being charged. Trenchi Fan has not even asnwered my question and he used to work for one of these Companies. He clearly understands the system in place. Has no one even asked the question before. If you have, then share what information you recieved. If there is a logical explanation then please explain it and I will be happy to acept it.
 
Hello Brendan I have read the threads you referred me to and I appreciate your help. Perhaps I am stupid and clearly dont get the picture. I am simply asking what was deducted in monitory terms based on historical fact. In order to deduct a figure from my investment they had to have a figure amount.

If you could explain what I am missing that would be helpful.
 
tenchi-fan said:
If I bought a car I wouldn't expect the salesman to know how the engine worked, and I wouldn't expect the car's manufacturer to explain it to me. I'd just be happy the car was doing what I paid for!
Click to expand...

Yup, personally I am always inclined to unquestioningly trust salesmen in general and financial salesmen in particular. In fact, I absolutely trust all financial services companies. Notoriously honest and upright bunch, never ever ever known to put their interests above those of their clients, eh?

If they won't explain their fee-charging structure in terms a layman can understand, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with them concealing a particularly fat percentage behind a load of smoke and mirrors? It could only mean that its simply too complex for mortals to understand.
 
Hello Brendon I have read the article you refer to and I can see the various problems that would play a part in giving me an answer but only as it relates to next years charges. I am seeking the bottom line on fees, commission and charges taken in the historical sense and therefore all events have taken place and the effects of those events are known along with the charges associated with them. Therefore, I cannot see how it relates to my situation.

If they took their fees etc that they applied a value and deducted that amount from the balance of my Investment. So simply what are the charges etc applied. Worksop7 is right when he states the only reason a company would hide the true extent of these figures is to protect the fact that they are fat.
 
Barbie doll said:
I am seeking the bottom line on fees, commission and charges taken in the historical sense and therefore all events have taken place and the effects of those events are known along with the charges associated with them. Therefore, I cannot see how it relates to my situation.

If they took their fees etc that they applied a value and deducted that amount from the balance of my Investment. So simply what are the charges etc applied.
Click to expand...

Brendan basically told you it isn't possible to provide you with this information. At least, not practically possible.
 
"at least not practically possible". tells me that on some level it is. Something that happens in the past is "known". I am not asking what these charges apply to but what they are. That is based on the balance before taking these fees etc. followed by the balance after. If my statement is able to list my balance then it should be able to tell me what the historical fees were. The events have happened. The historical events allow a customer to see where they need to go next. If it is in their best interest to stay with the current fund or to opt out. I except other factors will play a part in your decision but none the less, costs are important.

Tell me why you think it isnt practically possible to tell clients the historical charges etc

This article from Neil Faulkner might explain why I decided to ask New Ireland about the charges etc... I hope the link can be followed as I think it is relevant to my enquiry
[broken link removed]
 
Last edited:
Hi Barbie

That article refers to a completely separate issue. If you read the link I posted, you will see that it is practically impossible to give the charges for individuals as they are applied mostly at fund level.

Brendan
 
If I keep getting it wrong then why didnt New Ireland clearly state that I would never be told exactly what the charges etc where and why bother telling you what they charge. This is misleading everybody and the only people benefiting from this, is New Ireland Assurance. What does everybody else think?

If I have it so wrong then explain the article I was reading if it wasnt about charging and the manor in which the industry operates.
 
Barbie, you just don't get it!

If you tell us how much you paid into the policy and the current value we could estimate how much you were probably charged over the years. The point is, doing so is rather pointless.

Judge your investment by it's merit as it stands today. If it's performing well and you know the management charge is 1.65% and you are no longer making contributions it doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate the management charge. Stop obsessing over money you spent 10 years ago! And in future, just maintain your own records a bit better if you really want a detailed historical record.

Now another point. If you invest €100 the management charge is only €1.65.
However, if the value of your investment doubles your management charge doubles to €3.30.
So isn't it a bit silly that you want to know the charge in monetary terms, when in fact when you're seeking out the best interest rate you go by the percentage return!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top