New-build snagging disaster

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Aladdin

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After torturous repeated build delays, during which my family and I have been living in rental accommodation, I was finally told the new build I'm buying is 'ready' for snagging.
Except it's not. It's painfully apparent even at a cursory glance that the workmanship on pretty much every last inch of the place is half-baked and substandard, and whatever skilled contractors the builder used on the showhouse obviously haven't been next nor near my place. Lumps out of kitchen cupboards crudely patched back up, doors not hanging right or closing, messy paint splotches and more worryingly, double-glazed windows instead of triple as per the brochure/showhouse.

The guy surveying the place for me was equally taken aback at the level of finish, the snag took him 3 hours and his list is about twenty pages long. I'd expected some issues of course, but if the outward stuff looks that bad, it makes me wonder what other corners have been cut beneath the surface that I can't see. To say nothing of the fact that the place is costing us the guts of €1m!

What are the builders legal obligations in this regard? Is 'good finish' merely in the eye of the beholder? Can I refuse to complete if they don't bring everything up to showhouse standard as this feels like a blatant bait and switch. Or is them saying it's ready for completion when it's clearly not, be merely another excuse for seemingly endless delays?
*Edited to add: Builders have not yet responded to any of the snagging concerns which we submitted last week.*
 
You mentioned it yourself but if the surface finish standards are so bad I'd be prompted to commission an Engineer to take a look at building reg compliance and fire compliance and structure compliance. Maybe they're all under the same regs but you know what I mean.

Deeper dive.

A few grand now and some time now may save you years of legal costs and endless headmelting.
 
When you mention show house how many houses are in the estate? Have you been able to talk to any of the other purchasers to see if this is a common problem throughout the houses and would therefore benefit by a joint approach to the problems?
 
There are still a lot of cowboy builders out there that just throw things up. I would seriously consider walking away from something like that if it was in that condition. Has your engineer checked the soundproofing? Run the upstairs shower and flush the toilet to see what you can hear downstairs. Run the heating/ showers to make sure there aren't any leaks. If they are doing this for a €1m property, I'd be very alarmed.
 
I would play hard ball on this. Can't imagine they are excited about putting a €1m house back on the market in current environment so will probably push to get it done to a certain standard. As said above though, I would be looking at walking away as well so probably worth a discussion with your solicitor.

I would get a proper survey done rather than just snagging list as well. Snag lists are just things you can see and are usually the things the builders make sure look ok even if rest of it is rubbish....Fact that they haven't even managed that.....
 
Horatio said:
You mentioned it yourself but if the surface finish standards are so bad I'd be prompted to commission an Engineer to take a look at building reg compliance and fire compliance and structure compliance. Maybe they're all under the same regs but you know what I mean.

Deeper dive.

A few grand now and some time now may save you years of legal costs and endless headmelting.
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I'd (perhaps stupidly) assumed that building regs being so tight now meant that the days of any cowboy stuff were long gone. I know they need to provide compliance certs for completion and hoping these would be issued by third parties and not the developer's own engineers since nobody seems to have pulled anything up so far.
 
Sue Ellen said:
When you mention show house how many houses are in the estate? Have you been able to talk to any of the other purchasers to see if this is a common problem throughout the houses and would therefore benefit by a joint approach to the problems?
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No clue about any of the other purchasers. My contract is with the developer so really my priority now is finding out what his legal obligations are to make things right, as opposed to trying to salvage via committee down the line - feels like an even longer road strewn with more headaches!
 
Steven Barrett said:
There are still a lot of cowboy builders out there that just throw things up. I would seriously consider walking away from something like that if it was in that condition. Has your engineer checked the soundproofing? Run the upstairs shower and flush the toilet to see what you can hear downstairs. Run the heating/ showers to make sure there aren't any leaks. If they are doing this for a €1m property, I'd be very alarmed.
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Water is not yet connected - another long drawn-out saga, but just when I thought we were getting somewhere this happens. Trying to figure out if I actually have grounds to walk away now because I'm not sure there's a happy ending to be had here.
 
There is a thing called a builders finish on a lot of new houses.
The show house will always be decked out with the best of stuff,if you want it like the show house you’d have to pay extra,especially the windows from DG too TG.
Irish water connections can take quite a while as well as ESB.
Go true the snag list with builder and get each item sorted.
Once gone true get it snagged again and have a chat with the finishing foreman.
 
I would be more concerned about the big ticket items...
Has the heating been commissioned?
Heat pump?....is it adequate for the size house?
Underfloor heating?...any leaks?
Have you been able to verify the thickness of insulation?
 
Aladdin said:
I'd (perhaps stupidly) assumed that building regs being so tight now meant that the days of any cowboy stuff were long gone. I know they need to provide compliance certs for completion and hoping these would be issued by third parties and not the developer's own engineers since nobody seems to have pulled anything up so far.
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There's still loads of them around. They mess around the subcontractors who eventually stop working for them, so they end up with the cheapest subbies who use lads who have no pride in the quality of their work. The developer doesn't give a damn either and is only focused on maximising his profits. That's why you need to check the soundproofing between rooms. If they skimped on stuff you can see with your eyes, what about what is supposed to be between the floorboards?
 
Aladdin said:
Except it's not. It's painfully apparent even at a cursory glance that the workmanship on pretty much every last inch of the place is half-baked and substandard, and whatever skilled contractors the builder used on the showhouse obviously haven't been next nor near my place. Lumps out of kitchen cupboards crudely patched back up, doors not hanging right or closing, messy paint splotches and more worryingly, double-glazed windows instead of triple as per the brochure/showhouse.
Click to expand...

If this was contrary to the specification and not called out to you in advance of the snag, then that is a major red flag in my book. I know it is difficult to walk away at this stage but if you are thinking of proceeding, I would strongly consider getting some qualified trades people to look at their specific areas, electrics, plumbing, even a painter decorator. They will hone in on a major problems. For the time, money and heartache to rectify, it would be worth it to know where you stand, otherwise you are rolling the dice.
 
Steven Barrett said:
There's still loads of them around. They mess around the subcontractors who eventually stop working for them, so they end up with the cheapest subbies who use lads who have no pride in the quality of their work. The developer doesn't give a damn either and is only focused on maximising his profits. That's why you need to check the soundproofing between rooms. If they skimped on stuff you can see with your eyes, what about what is supposed to be between the floorboards?
Click to expand...

I think this is exactly it - no pride whatsoever. There's a world of difference between proper workmanship and some random jack of all trades on site going through the motions and just making do to get the job done, but it's those little details that make all the difference between luxury and standard. But to be honest, the finish here is neither - it's so rough it would actually make your eyes bleed.
And yes, triple-glazing and 'luxury' were both the major selling points and clearly listed in the spec sent to our solicitor at the start of the sale process.

Unavoidable delays with water connections aside, this has been a pattern all along, bad management, no oversight so God only knows what's beneath the surface. It's a tiny development and a few of the earlier builds including the showhouse are occupied so I'm guessing the developer must've been able to get a signoff on these somehow.

I want to walk away but do I have grounds to is my question? Is there precedent for poor finishing standard as a reason to pull out and how do I broach it legally?
 
Itchy said:
If this was contrary to the specification and not called out to you in advance of the snag, then that is a major red flag in my book. I know it is difficult to walk away at this stage but if you are thinking of proceeding, I would strongly consider getting some qualified trades people to look at their specific areas, electrics, plumbing, even a painter decorator. They will hone in on a major problems. For the time, money and heartache to rectify, it would be worth it to know where you stand, otherwise you are rolling the dice.
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And get the developer to pay them to right it all properly? Or do myself after the fact which I'd be very reluctant to do given the sum already involved. I don't think there's any trusting the builder to do it properly if such basic stuff like downpipes dropping a full foot away from the drainage outlet needs to be pointed out. Looking at the snagging pics honestly it's like something from those Spanish Homes Abroad programmes. Nightmare stuff!!
 
Aladdin said:
I think this is exactly it - no pride whatsoever. There's a world of difference between proper workmanship and some random jack of all trades on site going through the motions and just making do to get the job done, but it's those little details that make all the difference between luxury and standard. But to be honest, the finish here is neither - it's so rough it would actually make your eyes bleed.
And yes, triple-glazing and 'luxury' were both the major selling points and clearly listed in the spec sent to our solicitor at the start of the sale process.

Unavoidable delays with water connections aside, this has been a pattern all along, bad management, no oversight so God only knows what's beneath the surface. It's a tiny development and a few of the earlier builds including the showhouse are occupied so I'm guessing the developer must've been able to get a signoff on these somehow.

I want to walk away but do I have grounds to is my question? Is there precedent for poor finishing standard as a reason to pull out and how do I broach it legally?
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walking away will be difficult unless you have given them the opportunity to make good,

I assume they are A rated houses. have you seen the cert? they might argue there was no need for triple glazing as they made the rating without that for example.

But in general the standard of work done by subbies on estates is terrible, ours was a new build in a small estate at a similar price point and to be fair it was as good as ive seen for finish and even at that we had the whole house repainted and the guys spent days sanding walls, removing caulk etc etc.

i am fussy though!
 
Scoobydoobydoo said:
I would be more concerned about the big ticket items...
Has the heating been commissioned?
Heat pump?....is it adequate for the size house?
Underfloor heating?...any leaks?
Have you been able to verify the thickness of insulation?
Click to expand...
Yes, a deeper dive is a must but at this stage I'd be looking for it as ammunition to walk away altogether. But I have no idea if it's enough grounds to do so.
 
Leo said:
Items like damaged cabinets and double in place of triple glazing aren't matters of opinion, they're just not acceptable. Either the builder remedies them, you agree a suitable discount, or you walk away.
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But can I, is the question? My solicitor has been pretty unhelpful so far, he reckons this is par for the course with new builds and I need to just sit tight. But he hasn't seen the state of the place! I do have a mortgage clause in the contract though so maybe raising these issues with the bank might be the better avenue...
 
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