Leaving Ireland

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belle1

Registered User
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Hi All

I would just like to say there is a wealth of great information on this site, thank you all.

I am unemployed and hope to move in a few months to a non-eu country where I have family. I owe 14k to AIB. This loan was 27k, I took this loan out for a friend at the time, things happened and that person never repaid me - stupid judgement on my part!!!

Ive always had a decent enough wage, so have always paid but in the last year or so I hve struggled to make the full payments. Currently I am paying €50 per mth. I also have a mortgage which I am trying to pay. I have spoken to AIB and they said that I can only pay 50e per month until May and then repayments will have to be increased. I asked the bank official what could happen if I dont pay at all and she said they will try and seek a judgement against me.

My question is if I leave Ireland, and do not make payments, and the bank cannont contact me, under the Statute of Limitations (6years) will this loan be written off? I am not saying I am not going to pay, hopefully I will get a job abroad but worst case scenario, what can the banks do to me if I am abroad and they cannot contact me?

Someone told me that I can be arrested at the airport if there is a summons to court for me...does it mean I could not return to ireland for 6 years even for a holiday?

I would appreciate any advice you all may have.

Thank you
 
belle1 said:
worst case scenario, what can the banks do to me if I am abroad and they cannot contact me?

Someone told me that I can be arrested at the airport if there is a summons to court for me...does it mean I could not return to ireland for 6 years even for a holiday?
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Non EU country and a sum not worth chasing means they will do nothing. How on earth would they be able to go after you.

And no there is no system for registering people on databases at airports who've done a bun on their debts and their is zero chance of you being arrested.

Advice, play tough with AIB, tell them you are going abroad (don't say where) that you'd like to pay back this debt but you are only going to do so if they stop applying interest and agree to you repaying x amount (amount you can afford) off the capital. Get their agreement to this in writing. You might seek the free help of Mabs in this negotiation but they are run off their feet.
 
Thank you Bronte for your advice, I got a bit scared when I was told I could be arrested at the airport by my "friend"....
AIB have already suspended the interest thank god so anything I pay is going off the capital. But what annoys me about AIB, they are so quick to point the finger and make you feel like paying back this loan has to take over your life. Threatening me with a judgement...
I will pay what i can and if it comes to a point where i cant pay well so be it.
I dont think I will tell AIB where I moving to...
 
Bronte said:
Non EU country and a sum not worth chasing means they will do nothing.
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there is a loan of €14k but also a mortgage though OP did not specify amount left and equity.
Bank will probably repossess house if no repayments are made.
 
bacchus said:
there is a loan of €14k but also a mortgage though OP did not specify amount left and equity.
Bank will probably repossess house if no repayments are made.
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Hi Bacchus I have tennents in paying some of the mortgage. Mortgage repayment is 1250 per nth and I get 580e rent. Bank are happy with this arrangement until may then It will be reviewed again. Mortgage balance is 250k with 4k arrears and in ne of about 100k.
 
bacchus said:
there is a loan of €14k but also a mortgage though OP did not specify amount left and equity.
.
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I missed the mortgage, but it's now clarified at 100K NE and Belle is on the dole and unable to meet full repayments.

Belle, time to talk to the bank and ask them can you sell the house (if you sell the more likely the NE will be smaller). Don't tell them where you are going. There is no point in being unrealistic, a debt of at least 114K, plus costs, plus cost of moving abroad and then finding work means you'll never be paying this back. If you are going abroad I advise you to build up a nest egg (from your tenant's rent). Everything that is discussed with the bank should ideally be in writing.

Really it is time banks started to move and come to their senses on these messes.
 
Yes Bronte, I think you are right I need to speak to Ulster Bank. I hate dealing with them though..but it has to be done.

"If you are going abroad I advise you to build up a nest egg (from your tenant's rent). Everything that is discussed with the bank should ideally be in writing."

Bronte, will the bank not demand the money from me that I could potentially get from the tennents..Im not sure how I could build up a nest egg without the bank looking for the money?
 
belle1 said:
Yes Bronte, I think you are right I need to speak to Ulster Bank. I hate dealing with them though..but it has to be done.

"If you are going abroad I advise you to build up a nest egg (from your tenant's rent). Everything that is discussed with the bank should ideally be in writing."

Bronte, will the bank not demand the money from me that I could potentially get from the tennents..Im not sure how I could build up a nest egg without the bank looking for the money?
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Moving abroad and all that involves is very expensive financially and emotionally as well. Why not write to the bank and send them your income and priority outgoings and I mean all outgoing. They should see that you have no money left to pay them,or very little left and if that is 5 euros a month then offer to pay that amount to the bank. There is not much they can do about it except repossess your home and that can be expensive for them and it will take a bit of time for them to do it. If they make judgment on your home, they will only get what you can afford to pay them out of your income.

Make sure you either fax your budget statement or send it in a letter that you can get a receipt of delivery of it from the bank, as it is so easy for the the bank to say that they did not receive it.
 
belle1 said:
Bronte, will the bank not demand the money from me that I could potentially get from the tennents..Im not sure how I could build up a nest egg without the bank looking for the money?
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Well they can demand you pay them the money, but demanding and getting are two different things. I believe in paying one's debts. But if one cannot then it's a different story. In addition anyone who has to leave Ireland needs to think of themselves first and not the banks. People need a nest egg for the next country. Living expenses, rent, travelling costs etc.

Maybe when your bank demands the rents you'll be able to explain your tenant has 'left'.

Just curious how on earth had you planned to go abroad if you have no money? You must have made some forethought on this?
 
Thanks everyone for your advice.

Bronte, thankfully I have really great support from family members in the country Im going to, they are living there. Im not expecting them to support me financially forever but it was actually my family members abroad that suggested us moving there. They want us try and have some sort of quality of life and maybe some opportunities will come our way. We wont know unless we go. It def beats sitting here in ireland day in day out with no job, nowhere to take my daughter, and just living a very basic life week to week.

Thankfully we are in a better position than most where we have the chance to try and start a new life abroad.

My heart goes out to all those people and families who are struggling day in day out.

Life is short and we cant just sit back and let the banks/government dictate our lives.
 
I did a bunk on a French debt

Well, sort of.... I moved back home to Ireland several years ago and had a small debt of a few thousand left to repay. I arranged with the French bank to make monthly payments via international transfer, gave them my new address and duly sent the first payment to them on receipt of their bill. The amount changed each month, so I had to wait for the bill to know how much to send them..... And after the first payment they simply stopped sending me their bills...... Need
Ess to say I didn't chase them begging to pay. It was only about 2 grand of a loan I had left. I did think it odd at the time as I was very compliant and co-operative with them, and fully intended to pay. I suppose the amount was so small they just couldn't be bothered once I had moved abroad......
 
Hi All
So it looks like our house is probably close to €150k neg equity, I looked at the new Revenue link in relation house valuations (for Property Tax).

Myself and hubby have been doing ALOT of talking over the last fews weeks and we have admitted to ourselves that our morgage is unsustainable. I know we have tenents in at present but there is a chance that they may leave towards the end of this year. And even if the tenents stay longer, we are stil only going to be contributing 580e towards our mortgage payment, we are already in nearly 5k arrears and realistically we are never going to be able to pay off the mortgage in full.

We are moving abroad where we have family and much needed support. We do not have jobs lined up but you never know what the future holds. I know if we stay here we are doomed and this mess is begining to affect our mental health!

Any way, I will write a letter to the bank this week, but I would like opinions on what I should put in the letter.

Basically we do not want the house anymore. The bank do not know we have tenents. We have been giving the rent to the bank and they are happy with this payment until May.

Now, some people on here may not agree with what we are going to do but we have decided to stop our dd to UB for mortgage and save the rental income for our nestegg abroad ( Bronte had suggested this in an earlier post). Our family abroad have said they will help us financially where they can, but realisically we are both adults with a child, we need to have some funds build up for travel expenses, living costs etc.

So, what should I say to the bank in the letter?

I was thinking to voluntary surender and ask them to write off the neg equity as the mortgage is unsustainable, and we are going abroad....I doubt they will agree though..

Sorry for long post! Any idea's appreciated.
 
belle, are you going to the UK and will you declare formal bankruptcy? Or move abroad and let the judgement run its course and move on with new lives without going bankrupt? Just to say Im exploring both options and there are some serious considerations for both. If you search you will find excellent info on both. Like for example, at some point you must stop all correspondence with the bank if you want the debt to be cleared in 6 years and for them to stop chasing you. And if the nest egg is too big, you may have to relinquish it for bankruptcy. But if you are going further afield than the Uk you can probably just go and not look back.
 
belle1. You and other posters are not going to be very happy with my post but anyway I will state my position.
Where are you living now and how are you paying for this accommodation. How much social welfare do you and your husband receive per week. It is not the case that I have no sympathy for your position but I still do not like the idea of where you take rent from a property that you owe a considerable amount of money on and not pay the bank with it and I am sure you wont declare it for tax purposes or pay off the €500 that you owe revenue or increase your payments to clear off the AIB loan. What sort of country are we going to hand on to the next generation with this sort of thinking. I am not well off but always worked very hard and done without to meet repayments. Yes there are circumstances where people cannot make repayments but pay what you can is how I think.
If property prices improve in the next 10 years or so I can see where people who ran away from debts looking for legal avenues where they can have the property back. The last sentence is not directed at anyone in particular.
 
Hi Munchy
We are going to a non eu country, we have some family members there. Yes, there is super info on others threads/posts and thanks to all who have contributed the info.

I bet u and I are not the only ones with these massive live changing decisions to make but its imperative that I do the best I can in this awful situation and do whats right for my family. To be honest I think its going to be a case of going and not looking back. Tks for your reply
 
Dermot thank you for your reply.

I have worked long and hard also since I was 19 (for a bank actually), and up to a while ago Never defaulted on repayments. Sure, when you are in Full time permanent employment for most people their direct debits go out of their accounts to service loans etc and there is no problem. But when you are made redundant for example from a job, or your hours are cut, or pay reduced, it doesnt take long for people to fall behind.

I believe in paying my way but I do not have the money and to be honest, we have an opportunity to start a new life so we are going to take it.

In relation to your questions re sw payments, Im not being sarcastic but whats the most you think we get? We get by week to week on this money. And we have been paying the mortgage with the rental income up to now but sometimes needs be, we are putting our family first, saving a little bit of money to try and set up somewhere else.

You are talking about the next generation. Yes its sad that Ireland is in this mess and that our kids are mixed up in it too but as I said I have the chance to TAKE my child out of this negative environment we are living in, and bring her up in hopefully what will be a happier and healthier environment.
Look, I know it may be morally wrong to alot of people, not to pay your debts but I dont think its fair that we and everyone else that is in an unsustainable environment should have to soldier on paying little bits here and there knowing deep down the dept is never going to be paid.

In relation to the tax owed to the Revenue - this is tax owed since 2008 apparently, which I knew nothing about until last week. Revenue should have been collecting it from my credits. And yes, I will be declaring rents received to revenue, I have paid my Household charge and yes I am registered with PRTB, so best not to assume otherwise.
 
Thanks Cashier, you obviously guess where Im coming from...thanks for the kind words. I hope we are doing the right thing and everything works out ok.
 
belle1 .... best of luck with the move.

Post about how you're getting on with your new life when you get a chance ....
 
tks paddybloggit, I will def try and post, still another few months here though but hopefully we will be gone sooner rather than later.

BTW, its not an easy decision to make to just upsticks and move to a foreign country. Plus, on an emotional level we are taking away a grandaughter, a cousin, who will be missed dearly, she is only 14 months anyway, Im kinda gone off point of this thread...Anyone out there that thinks we are taking the easy way out or running away from our depts, there is more to it than that!!
 
Just going back to my original post last night, I need to write the letter to bank this week. Any opinions as to what I should put in the letter?
 
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