Ivan Yates on the Pat Kenny Show on News Talk

Steve Thatcher said:
He says he offered 85%.
He says they said to hum "Ivan it wouldn't matter of you offered 99% we wouldn't accept it"

Nice

Steve Thatcher
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I have to say that if Ivan was truly in a position to pay back 85% of his loans, I find it hard to believe that he would sit back and see all he worked for over the years go up in smoke!

And furthermore if he had this much cash on had that would imply that his creditors should have recovered a substantial portion of their money, do we know this to have happened???

It's an nice story, but I would not but much weight by it.
 
Cantalia said:
While I accept all the points of view above, and see the reason in all of them, I think the man has suffered enough. He wasn't underhanded, he was quite up front about what and why he was doing all the time. I wouldn't underestimate the effect it had on him his wife and his children. Go easy.
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Hi Cantalia

I really believe in bankruptcy and that people should be given a fresh start.

But his story doesn't add up and if he comes up with a story like that, he needs to be able to answer questions on it.

Brendan
 
I look forward to the responses of some of Ivan's supporters on here once he gets back into stride on the radio giving out about public servants, how there's too many of them and how they're overpaid and underworked !!!
 
I see he's also covering this week on Vinecent Brown show on TV3. A bit too much in the limelight too quickly perhaps...hard to see how AIB won,t try and get an order against his future earnings
 
Did Steve act for Ivan in any way in his UK bankruptcy?

You can find most of Ivan's bankruptcy papers here (Gavin has responsibly redacted some very personal and financially irrelevant information)

http://thestory.ie/2012/12/19/ivan-yates-bankruptcy-documents/


In the UK, bankruptcy papers are usually private to the bankrupt, the trustee and parties with a direct interest, such as creditors. However the Sunday Times has a history of applying to the UK courts to gain access to the records for publication, most recently against Bernard McNamara who unsuccessfully opposed the release and publication of the documents claiming the ST had a "prurient" interest. The ST won its application with the judge acknowledging the public interest aspect.

So, you can see all of Ivan's declared creditors from page 14 onwards, with AIB owed some GBP 2.9m

Good luck to Ivan, he was hopelessly insolvent, some may say he did the easy thing in moving to the UK in what must be a very clear case of bankruptcy tourism; it won't have been easy, though Ivan may be overegging it. Ivan is now back where his enterprise and talent should add to the quality of the country; who knows, he might even create business. He certainly has the inside track on a condition facing hundreds of thousands of citizens.

When bankruptcy is eventually commenced in the Personal Insolvency Act (why the delay, the DRN, DSA and PIA have been commenced, why not bankruptcy?) Ivan will be invaluable in providing insight.

But who will find it just or fair, submitting to 36-month bankruptcy, when we have Ivan financially reborn in 12 months (he says he lived in the UK for 16 months).
 
I note Justice Minister Alan Shatter is wishing Ivan Yates well.

How ironic that Alan's former political colleague has availed of a 12-month bankruptcy in the UK, and Alan has not yet commenced the 36-month procedure in the Personal Insolvency Act 2012.

But at least, we have a senior FG minister endorsing UK bankruptcy, and wishing the discharged bankrupt well.
 
Interesting that Minister Shatter is endorsing UK bankruptcy where the bankrupt spent 16 months in the country, and practically the day after discharge walked back into Ireland as if nothing had changed.

I wonder what Min Shatter thinks of Sean Dunne whose US bankruptcy trustee has said Sean's COMI is the US and that Sean hasn't lived in Ireland for seven years.

Or what would he make of NAMA which has said it is opposing two UK bankruptcy applications by Irish borrowers.
 
My reading of the 85% figure is that Ivan was offering 85% of his income towards repayments.
Which would have left him with an annual income of 20k by my reckoning.
Sounds like a reasonable and generous offer to me.
 
ashambles said:
When he says offering them 85%, what he means is some form of restructuring of debt, not a repayment of 85% which they'd have jumped at.

Ivan was owing something like 3.7m to AIB and claims he offered 3.14m and was rejected. Claims the bank said if he offered 3.6963m they'd reject that as well.

The bank vindictivly threw those millions away and instead pursued a bankruptcy.

Here's one big problem, if he had 3m the bank would have no problem and neither would have had Ivan, with those finances and maybe 300k in annual household income the bank would have no need to waste money going after his bankruptcy or even to look for immediate full repayment, he'd just need to keep the payments up to date.

In reality Ivan was several million in debt to more than one bank, and any income was spent partially servicing his debt. He clearly was not in position to be offering 3m to any bank.
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Has anyone gone through the papers yet. Was Ivan in a position to pay AIB €3m ?

Did the creditors get 85 pence in the pound?
 
I still don't understand why someone with a substantial guaranteed future income can just walk away from all debts without having some charge on future income. Yates has got a govt pension of 75K pa (index-linked) for life - why can't he be made pay even 20K pa out of that? It just seems really unfair to debtors that he walks away from his debts, back into a life with a guaranteed comfortable income. He is quoted as saying he is 'broke' - but he has no debts and an annual income of 75K plus whatever he gets from actual work (although I note he is careful to say that no contracts have been signed yet for Newstalk or a book) - there are lots of people in the country who would like to be his definition of broke.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Has anyone gone through the papers yet. Was Ivan in a position to pay AIB €3m ?

Did the creditors get 85 pence in the pound?
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The assets listed total stg511k against liabilities of stg2.5m, thus a shortfall of stg2m. Some of the assets are subject to rights by other parties eg Ivan's mother.

I think these are the application papers and so don't detail the settlement
 
orka said:
I still don't understand why someone with a substantial guaranteed future income can just walk away from all debts without having some charge on future income. Yates has got a govt pension of 75K pa (index-linked) for life - why can't he be made pay even 20K pa out of that? It just seems really unfair to debtors that he walks away from his debts, back into a life with a guaranteed comfortable income. He is quoted as saying he is 'broke' - but he has no debts and an annual income of 75K plus whatever he gets from actual work (although I note he is careful to say that no contracts have been signed yet for Newstalk or a book) - there are lots of people in the country who would like to be his definition of broke.
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The list of monthly expenses totals exactly his monthly income of stg3,130... presumably there was some questioning and review of this. He has also declared he has no income from his new occupation as author. There's no information in the papers on how the courts might have viewed future earning potential
 
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...oke-and-wants-to-make-a-fresh-start-1.1513877
Mr Yates said the bank got “hardcore” in late 2011 over the debts and claims that AIB rejected a settlement that would have yielded it up to 86 cent in the euro on its debts and would have netted it €1 million more than it now stands to make.
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Clearly he wasn't making a straightforward repayment offer that some here believed from his words yesterday. There's a difference between offering immediate repayment of an amount versus presenting some plan that could eventually yield up to that amount.



Also "would have netted it €1 million more" is incorrect - since the "up to" has gone missing.
 
orka said:
I still don't understand why someone with a substantial guaranteed future income can just walk away from all debts without having some charge on future income. Yates has got a govt pension of 75K pa (index-linked) for life - why can't he be made pay even 20K pa out of that? It just seems really unfair to debtors that he walks away from his debts, back into a life with a guaranteed comfortable income. He is quoted as saying he is 'broke' - but he has no debts and an annual income of 75K plus whatever he gets from actual work (although I note he is careful to say that no contracts have been signed yet for Newstalk or a book) - there are lots of people in the country who would like to be his definition of broke.
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The report on the 9pm news had a bankruptcy expert on it. He clearly said he'd be very surprised if AIB did'nt go after his future earnings.
So my reading of it is that they will seek an attachment order
 
It it was an Irish bankruptcy maybe? Ivan will have been too clever for that.
 
Time said:
It it was an Irish bankruptcy maybe? Ivan will have been too clever for that.
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Only time will tell... It is my opinion that there are probably a couple of grounds on which a bank could seek to have a UK bankruptcy over turned on the basis that it was a sham and intended purely to avoid their Irish creditors, it really comes down to whether or not the bank is willing to invest time and money on it. In most cases it is not worth the effort, but in this case it might just be worth the effort....

Only time will tell...
 
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