Irish Times, "Average Dublin rents rise to €2,258, up 14.3%, amid ‘extreme shortage"
- Thread starter Purple
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Only if they dilute the property rights language at the same time.
That is a reaction to our housing crisis...
Does having 13,000 people out of a population of over 5 million constitute a crisis?
The language we use is important. We are now looking at the possibility that property owning rights which are fundamentally important for liberal democracy to function will be undermined. People who care about moderate centralist politics should all be very concerned.
Does having 13,000 people out of a population of over 5 million constitute a crisis?
The language we use is important. We are now looking at the possibility that property owning rights which are fundamentally important for liberal democracy to function will be undermined. People who care about moderate centralist politics should all be very concerned.
You mean the number of homeless?
Seems to be 10,500 this year according to this (which is also quoted extensively in the media).
Homepage - Homelessness in Ireland
Homelessness in Ireland is an online, educational resource created and delivered by the national housing and homelessness charity, Peter McVerry Trust.
homelessnessinireland.ie
Yep, the headline figure quoted on the wireless this morning was just over 13,000. That is moderate to low by OECD standards and our definition of homeless in broader than many.You mean the number of homeless?
Seems to be 10,500 this year according to this (which is also quoted extensively in the media).
Homepage - Homelessness in Ireland
Homelessness in Ireland is an online, educational resource created and delivered by the national housing and homelessness charity, Peter McVerry Trust.
Do we want to go back to the hard days of the 30's 40's, 50's and 60's when we built lots of small badly constructed houses in areas which became ghettos and invested very little in education and health? That resulted in a stagnant economy, high emigration and laid the ground for massive social problems.
I very much doubt that housing policy alone was responsible for those ills.
It does when Sinn Fein and the media have nothing else to complain about! But the Irish media has gone to the dogs in recent years.
We invested very little in human capital for the first 50 years we were independent and for most of that period we got poorer in real and relative terms. It was only when we started doing so that we started to thrive as a country.
It would require large reductions in spending on health, education and welfare for us to replicate the building we did in the 40's and 50's. Replicating it would also create the next generation of ghettos.
The Horseman
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The whole idea of ghettos has more to do with the mentality of those living there then the quality of the buildings etc. I still contend if we went some way to addressing these issues we would be in a better place.
We have a fundamental issue with our society whereby we continually give to those who just take and don't give anything back. We have a young well educated workforce who are being fleeced via income and wealth taxes. Why bother working when you pay tax and have little or nothing to show for it at the end of the day. Be it a good standard of living or an asset that you worked for only to be taxed again and again and again on.
I agree. The idea is to mix those people in with the general population so that their children don't grow up to be lowlifes.
Silversurfer
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We are doing that already surely?
The Horseman
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I don't agree. There are no consequences for these people. If there were actual consequences their behaviour might change. Why destroy multiple areas. Why not deal with the cause rather than try mitigate the negatives of the outcomes.
Yes, that is what we are doing. It's not what we did during the "golden age" of public house building.
The only way to address the root cause is through education. That is unless you are in favour of something like what the Romans did in Carthage.
In the long run yes. The problem in the here and now with the adults can only be dealt with through enforcement.
I agree, in fact many of the children can only be dealt with the same way.
We certainly need more police to enforce the law.
So called Social Deprivation is mainly a symptom of a cultural attitude. In some communities people are shunned for breaking the law. In others they are shunned for talking to the police.
In the former boys grow up to become men. In the latter boys never grow up and dress and talk and behave like children for their whole lives. They talk about "respect" and "giving cheek" and have such fragile egos that they will get into fights with strangers in the way children do in school yards.
I think there is more to to it than that. The cultural attitude doesn't emerge out of nowhere, it is also a function of the police presence in the areas.
But to return to the main topic of the thread, I don't see it as having anything to do with the below:
lots of small badly constructed houses in area
It's a reflection of the culture and attitude of the parents. Theirs is a reflection of the culture and attitude of their parents, and so on. The only thing that breaks that cycle is killing the children or educating them. I'm in favour of the latter solution.
Ghettos are created when large areas of social housing are created based on class/socio-economic group. That's settled fact, not opinion.
T McGibney
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Well if people insist on the State (which has a generally abysmal record in infrastructural projects) building hundreds of thousands of cheap houses at a time of record materials cost inflation and abject shortages of skilled labour, of course they're going to be badly constructed.
That wasn't the point you made originally though.
And there were large area of social housing created in the 1920s in Dublin that did not turn into ghettos.