Interesting data on who gets paid what in the public service

[Brendan Burgess]

From yesterday's Indo. Can't find it online




These are basic salaries. Many get allowances e.g. Teachers get

• Supervision and substitution allowance
• Acting up allowance
• Gaeltacht allowance
• Teaching through Irish allowance

The Bus Eireann driver's average annual earnings are €45,555 which include overtime, shift, Sunday duty and expenses
Brendan

 

[Purple]

The CSO figures on average pay are more informative.
I can't find the up to date figures but as there's been little or no inflation since 2008 [broken link removed] is a good indicator.

 

[gianni]

From yesterday's Indo. Can't find it online

View attachment 1702
These are basic salaries. Many get allowances e.g. Teachers get

• Supervision and substitution allowance
• Acting up allowance
• Gaeltacht allowance
• Teaching through Irish allowance

Brendan

Teachers can also get:

Appointees Pre 01/02/2012
1.(a) (i)H. Dip in Ed./PGDE (Pass) €591
(ii)Higher Froebel Certificate €591

(b) (i)H.Dip in Ed. / PGDE (1st or 2nd Hons) €1,236
(ii)Ard Teastas Gaeilge €1,236

(c) Primary Degree (Pass) €1,842

(d) Masters Degree by thesis or exam (Pass) €4,918

(e) Primary Degree (1st, 2nd or 3rd Hons) €4,918

(f) Master Degree (1st or 2nd Hons) €5,496

(g) Doctors Degree €6,140

(One would assume, at a minimum that all teachers have a primary degree and a HDip in Education.)

 

[Páid]

Gianni just to be clear, those are allowances for Secondary School Teachers.

 

[gianni]

Gianni just to be clear, those are allowances for Secondary School Teachers.

That's correct. Apologies, I thought I put that in the post.
Details are taken from ASTI website.

 

[Firefly]

(c) Primary Degree (Pass) €1,842

Only in Ireland would a teacher get extra money for a Pass degree. In most other countries they wouldn't be hired in the first place..

So a 2nd class degree plus a 2nd class masters works out at 10k a year extra...

 

[gianni]

That's correct. Apologies, I thought I put that in the post.
Details are taken from ASTI website.

Although, as the INTO website would suggest, the academic allowances are the same.

Also, not sure if a teacher would qualify for a primary degree and masters degree allowance. I would think that you get the allowance equal to your highest educational attainment ?

 

[Protocol]

Typically teachers get two academic allowances;

(1) degree
(2) postgrad

Note that allowances have been abolished for new entrants.

 

[Firefly]

Typically teachers get two academic allowances;

(1) degree
(2) postgrad

I would ask why are these allowances in the first place. Surely a degree is a basic minimum requirement for teaching?

 

[gianni]

[

Typically teachers get two academic allowances;

(1) degree
(2) postgrad

Note that allowances have been abolished for new entrants.

Where does the H/Dip (and it's allowance) fit into this ?

 

[Protocol]

Academic Allowances
Either of the allowances (a) or (b) may be held together with any one of the allowances (c) to (g).

 

[Purple]

(One would assume, at a minimum that all teachers have a primary degree and a HDip in Education.)

I would ask why are these allowances in the first place. Surely a degree is a basic minimum requirement for teaching?

Why would a wood working, tech-drawing, home economics or metal work teacher need a degree?
Anyone with a Senior Trades qualification can do a two year H-Dip and become a teacher.
The Allowances are a nonsense though. If a teacher has a Masters in the subject they are teaching then yes, maybe pay them extra but paying extra for having the minimum requirement to teach, a Higher Diploma in teaching, is laughable.

 

[Gerry Canning]

Maybe its just me but ?

Degrees are so last century , in general they mean people went to school longer ,not that they are much better at a given job v 4 years hands on.
Degrees seem to be last centuries leaving cert.
By all means do H-Dip type programmes to hone teaching type skills, as that qualification is a minimum competency test, but I just can,t see justification for the plethora of allowances / posts of responsibility etc.Probably they arose to give sideway payments.

I think by teachers itemizing and getting paid for each bit of work they have ended up in danger of losing (professionalism) and risk retreating into a narrow defined version of their job...
I don,t think this is good ?

They seem by general measures to be quite well paid.

 

[elcato]

Degrees seem to be last centuries leaving cert.

Yep. Asked my niece last year when she graduated when do you expect to start work and was told that unless you have a masters no-one will give you a job outside retail. The problem now is that the amount of rubbish degrees out there where people are choosing something they'd 'like to do' rather than something practical that will get a job at the end of it i.e. computer science, engineering and accounting or medicine. The unis have diluted degrees by having courses on hamster feeding and ancient water history which are just basically money spinners for the lecturers so they can make up their fat salaries. Amazeballs that they still fall for this tripe but there ya go.

 

[jjm]

Firefly I would sooner have a teacher with passion for there Job With a pass than a teacher who got a masters just to earn Higher Salary,
We need to raise New Entrants wages In the public service .Ireland high cost of Living on younger people need to be looked at.The older you are in Ireland the less cost you have

 

[Páid]

Why would a wood working, tech-drawing, home economics or metal work teacher need a degree?
Anyone with a Senior Trades qualification can do a two year H-Dip and become a teacher.
The Allowances are a nonsense though. If a teacher has a Masters in the subject they are teaching then yes, maybe pay them extra but paying extra for having the minimum requirement to teach, a Higher Diploma in teaching, is laughable.

Are you sure they are getting the allowance for their primary degree?

What about teachers who on top of their primary degree, pursue degrees/masters in psychology, counselling, business, computing, economics, art, music, etc. in order to better teach their students?

 

[Protocol]

I suspect the academic allowances are a legacy from a time when you didn't necessarily need these qualifications to be a teacher.

 

[cremeegg]

We need to raise New Entrants wages In the public service.

There are many qualified applicants for every teaching job, over a hundred applicants for every garda job. We clearly do not need to raise their salaries to recruit people. If you think it would be nice for them to have a bit more, good for you, but I don't want to have to pay for it.

There are problems recruiting nurses, this needs to be rectified, but the issue seems to have more to do with working conditions than with salary levels.

 

[Purple]

What about teachers who on top of their primary degree, pursue degrees/masters in psychology, counselling, business, computing, economics, art, music, etc. in order to better teach their students?

The problem is that while people should get paid more for being better at their job the slip side is that they should be sacked if they are rubbish at their job. As teachers and their unions never allow rubbish teachers to be removed it is unfair that they get rewarded for being potentially better (a masters does not mean they will be better, it just means they should be better). They want it both ways; carrot but no stick. That's not how things work in the real world.

 

[Páid]

I suspect the academic allowances are a legacy from a time when you didn't necessarily need these qualifications to be a teacher.

I agree. The academic allowances are for those teachers who may have more than just a primary degree when they start teaching and for teachers who continually educate themselves in order to remain current.

The problem is that while people should get paid more for being better at their job the slip side is that they should be sacked if they are rubbish at their job. As teachers and their unions never allow rubbish teachers to be removed it is unfair that they get rewarded for being potentially better (a masters does not mean they will be better, it just means they should be better). They want it both ways; carrot but no stick. That's not how things work in the real world.

This thread is on the subject of remuneration, not the performance of a small percentage of teachers who don't meet your "real world" standard.