Insulation - cavity walls pumped with beads?

C

Cheese

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Hi all,
I need some advice please. My house was built 1977/ 78, outer brick with internal block, no insulation, total wall width 12.5" approx. I'm thinking of having the cavity walls pumped with beads, but after researching online I've found a lot of negative advice and reports of mould problems from UK newspapers and BBC, though dated 5 to 6 years back. I'm wondering if the problems have been rectified. Bead insulation seems to be very popular in Ireland. Is it suitable for a brick house? I had internal walls drylined a few years back, slight improvement, heard the beads are much more effective. Attic is well insulated. Thanks.
 
problems in the U.K. are primarily with houses that had fibre pumped in the cavity.

Beads are a better job as they fill the cavity properly provided there is a minimum gap of 50mm

Brick fronts can only be pumped in areas which are not exposed to wind driven rain i.e coastal or houses on a height and exposed
 
Buddy1977 said:
problems in the U.K. are primarily with houses that had fibre pumped in the cavity.

Beads are a better job as they fill the cavity properly provided there is a minimum gap of 50mm

Brick fronts can only be pumped in areas which are not exposed to wind driven rain i.e coastal or houses on a height and exposed
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Many thanks for helpful reply Buddy. In fact I had the mineral wool pumped in in 1990, but have found names of cavity insulation extraction firms that can remove it. I will definitely have that done first if I go ahead with the beads.
 
Hello,

We got the beads pumped into our walls several years ago... and I would not recommend it.

Firstly, I do not believe that they have made any significant impact on the heat retention throughout our house.

Secondly, they are messy... every time there is any sort of wind, they start appearing all over the place. They come through every hole in the wall, all of the airvents, where there are extractor fans, at the boiler, where the gas and electricity meter is on the outside of the house etc. This is happening to more than just be by the way, I know of another household who has the same problem.

I would strongly recommend looking for an alternative solution, if heat retention is what your after.
 
An alternative opinion on beads ... got cavity filled with them a few years back and extra attic insulation also.

I've noticed a marked improvement in heat retention in the house.

No sign of beads here since they were pumped in.

As an aside; I did a total renovation of an old property over the past number of years and I used insulated plaster boards on the ceilings and the walls ... a great job for heat retention. Bead also used in block wall extension. Only time I see bead is when I look into the ESB box to read the meter. There are beads to be seen where the cable enters the box via the cavity.
 
MrEarl said:
Hello,

We got the beads pumped into our walls several years ago... and I would not recommend it.

Firstly, I do not believe that they have made any significant impact on the heat retention throughout our house.

Secondly, they are messy... every time there is any sort of wind, they start appearing all over the place. They come through every hole in the wall, all of the airvents, where there are extractor fans, at the boiler, where the gas and electricity meter is on the outside of the house etc. This is happening to more than just be by the way, I know of another household who has the same problem.

I would strongly recommend looking for an alternative solution, if heat retention is what your after.
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Sounds like adhesive wasn't put in with your beads mr earl... I have worked In this industry and can vouch for a properly installed job... unfortunately there were cowboys going around a few years back ... the majority of these have been weeded out now due to audits from Seai and Nsai
 
Buddy1977 said:
Sounds like adhesive wasn't put in with your beads mr earl...
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Sure, thats a possibility alright, but as I've mentioned I know someone else with the same situation. Out of interest, is there a relatively simple fix for this, if it is the problem ?

Also, no real change in heat retention based on our own experience.
 
Yeah, some of the earlier providers didn't use bonded beads.

I'd wonder how effective the proposed removal of fibre insulation from a cavity could be...
 
Leo said:
Yeah, some of the earlier providers didn't use bonded beads.

I'd wonder how effective the proposed removal of fibre insulation from a cavity could be...
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The 'removers' say they can take out all the old insulation and then show the empty cavaties with a thermal camera before re-pumping with bead. I'd love to hear from someone who's had it done.
 
Some builders I know swear by the fibre insulation and I myself have seen and been in houses done with both. Be very tempted to go with fibre and an awful lot of critisism seems to be given by people based on assumption. Can someone please give the link which proves the fibre is not good or, the bead is very good, or whatever? Thanks.
 
noproblem said:
Some builders I know swear by the fibre insulation and I myself have seen and been in houses done with both. Be very tempted to go with fibre and an awful lot of critisism seems to be given by people based on assumption. Can someone please give the link which proves the fibre is not good or, the bead is very good, or whatever? Thanks.
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All fibre insulation sags after a time. If you're ever seen an attic that was insulated 10 or more years ago you'll know what I mean. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive carry out [broken link removed] that include extensive testing, including borescope analysis of cavities. In one estate alone in the 2011 survey they examined 25 houses, all of which had filled cavities, 17 fibre fill, 4 loose bead. All had issues with sparse or no fill in areas up to an entire gable wall in one house. Many had mould issues as a result.
 
Cheese said:
The 'removers' say they can take out all the old insulation and then show the empty cavaties with a thermal camera before re-pumping with bead. I'd love to hear from someone who's had it done.
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Using a thermal camera in this situation is just a gimmic to try convince you they know what they're doing. Why don't they scope it and prove it's empty? If you've ever used a vacuum cleaner to try coax small fibres from a tight space, you'll know it's never 100% effective. If the fibre is wet, it'll be even less effective.

Take a look [broken link removed] to understand some of the challenges and the conditions required to get worthwhile results with thermal cameras.
 
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Thanks Leo and all who have given me advice. So I guess I can't depend on a thermal camera. I'm keen to find out how successful the extraction of the mineral wool insulation is, with a view to refilling cavaties with bead. Should I start a new thread for that?
 
Thanks Leo and all who have given me advice. So I guess I can't depend on a thermal camera. I'm keen to find out how successful the extraction of the mineral wool insulation is, with a view to refilling cavaties with bead. Should I start a new thread for that?
 
After Leo's advice on the sagging of some types of insulation in walls I decided to make more enquiries about this and other aspects of cavity wall insulation, my goodness do opinions vary. It seems there's for and against everything and every type of material, with a lot of very knowledgeable people saying there should be no cavity insulation at all, preference being to externally insulate houses if one can afford it. The beads and glue used don't always last as moisture breaks down the glue and also there's a substance in the glue that can interact negatively with electric cables, etc, plus other drawbacks. The blown in fibre insulation I saw being pumped in and naturally enough all went well, the interesting thing was the builder brought me to a house he owned which was getting a makeover. It had been pumped with fibre insulation in 2005 in all 4 walls and he had bored holes in quite a few places, in corners and on the middle of walls, etc, about 2 ft from the wall plates, all round the house and it was packed with insulation. I asked him to do a few holes nearer the top of walls and none had sagging. I must say, I was impressed. Now, I didn't see this done with beads but this builder (friend) told me he had problems in the past with beads and glue v moisture plus the aforementioned electrical reaction and that's why i'd be going with fibre if choosing. Asked him about the aeroboard insulation with ties and he said no blocklayer likes using it and all cut corners (literally) that there'll always be places where it will be left out and no one will ever see it, he would never, never, use it. For what it's worth that's my tuppence worth and all this was in the west of Ireland, Co Galway, but not beside the sea, exposed enough though, I suppose you could say an average looking 2 storey house, but a large one (3000 sq ft). A day well spent.
 
noproblem said:
After Leo's advice on the sagging of some types of insulation in walls I decided to make more enquiries about this and other aspects of cavity wall insulation, my goodness do opinions vary. It seems there's for and against everything and every type of material, with a lot of very knowledgeable people saying there should be no cavity insulation at all, preference being to externally insulate houses if one can afford it. The beads and glue used don't always last as moisture breaks down the glue and also there's a substance in the glue that can interact negatively with electric cables, etc, plus other drawbacks. The blown in fibre insulation I saw being pumped in and naturally enough all went well, the interesting thing was the builder brought me to a house he owned which was getting a makeover. It had been pumped with fibre insulation in 2005 in all 4 walls and he had bored holes in quite a few places, in corners and on the middle of walls, etc, about 2 ft from the wall plates, all round the house and it was packed with insulation. I asked him to do a few holes nearer the top of walls and none had sagging. I must say, I was impressed. Now, I didn't see this done with beads but this builder (friend) told me he had problems in the past with beads and glue v moisture plus the aforementioned electrical reaction and that's why i'd be going with fibre if choosing. Asked him about the aeroboard insulation with ties and he said no blocklayer likes using it and all cut corners (literally) that there'll always be places where it will be left out and no one will ever see it, he would never, never, use it. For what it's worth that's my tuppence worth and all this was in the west of Ireland, Co Galway, but not beside the sea, exposed enough though, I suppose you could say an average looking 2 storey house, but a large one (3000 sq ft). A day well spent.
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For me there was very little improvement with the mineral wool (fibre).
 
Cheese said:
For me there was very little improvement with the mineral wool (fibre).
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That's another angle of it and an important one, I was only mentioning the sagging, etc.
Hope you've got the heat on at 6.10 am? You'll catch your death.
 
So mild, 12° here in the sunny south east. I ask myself if I really need all this insulation.
 
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