Inda sacking Richard Bruton
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Complainer
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Happy Days indeed - For Labour and FF
starlite68
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whatever about labour......FF are finished come election time!
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He made up his mind about it a long time ago, and came out with a clear public position that it was a matter for union members to decide. No mystery there. It's really funny to see FF-ers repeatedly dragging up this chestnut - is that really their worst criticism of Gilmore?
My Labour TD, Tommy Broughan, was promising, in 2007, to bring the LUAS and a 3rd level institution to the constituency.
Wonder what he'll be promising next time?
Strange - no mention of either of those promises on his 2007 leaflet.
Strange how the 'full capital costs committed on Day 1' didn't work for the residents of St Michael's estate, where McNamara pulled out of the PPP as soon as he realised he'd never be able to sell the apartments. I don't know anything about the Northside project in question, but did we really need yet another set of empty apartments/offices/shops?
No idea where you got the 'say nothing' from. Labour have been far from quiet, and have been releasing major policy initiatives on a pretty regular basis. But if you don't want to listen....
Would that be the same Labour that leads Dublin City Council? One might wonder how the same constituency organisations got out behind all those councillors (many of whom are chomping at the bit for the chance to run for the big job).
You are right. Sign me up.
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A two page document on a 5 year education policy. WOW!
And this is just so detailed, I can't get my head around the sophisticated analysis
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I'm delighted for Inda, everyone whinges about politicians with no integrity or honesty, then they get one and he's not showbiz enough.
I've always thought of Kenny as a straight shooter type, a chairman, a leader in the sense of leading a party or a force as opposed to some sort of messianic figure that the media appear to want (Obama, the latest holy grail, hasnt stunned the world yet, though I like his intelligence & liberalism). Its ego that got Ireland into much of the trouble we're in, bankers who could walk on water, Bertie (self-congratulator supreme) and Cowen spending like there'd never be a poor day.
Inda is more pragmatic, his opponents have come across as jibbers who lost their nerve based on one opinion poll, and while I didnt necessarily agree with him sacking Bruton I think he could yet be the bigger man and offer Bruton his old job back - since its the best offering to the electorate. Kenny to bind and guide the party/government & let the "experts" get on with their expertise.
All this bs about "oh, he didnt perform well in an interview", "he doesnt connect with the people" - I for one am sick of people/the media/the FG jibber element going on like its a Eurostar competition, if I wanted a media man I'd bleedin make Marty Whelan Taoiseach, but since that not the essential role of the Taoiseach then why keep propogating "definitive" statements about aspects of Kenny's performance while are not crucial.
All these PR types have blown up their own importance, Kenny has delievered at the polling booth, where it really matters. I really believe that we're moving into a post-spin era, where people can spot spoofing from a mile off, and policy and integrity will win votes and seats.
Strange as it seems, if Inda takes back Bruton as Finance, and otherwise picks his best front bench team (be they pro or anti) I think FG may emerge stronger. Lets face it, the way FF are going it almost inconceivable that the next government can be anything other than FG & Labour with FG probably the larger party.
p.s. I'm not in any official Inda fanclub, or a FG member, voted FG last time and FF the time before that (different constituency, all politics local etc). .. rant over
I've always thought of Kenny as a straight shooter type, a chairman, a leader in the sense of leading a party or a force as opposed to some sort of messianic figure that the media appear to want (Obama, the latest holy grail, hasnt stunned the world yet, though I like his intelligence & liberalism). Its ego that got Ireland into much of the trouble we're in, bankers who could walk on water, Bertie (self-congratulator supreme) and Cowen spending like there'd never be a poor day.
Inda is more pragmatic, his opponents have come across as jibbers who lost their nerve based on one opinion poll, and while I didnt necessarily agree with him sacking Bruton I think he could yet be the bigger man and offer Bruton his old job back - since its the best offering to the electorate. Kenny to bind and guide the party/government & let the "experts" get on with their expertise.
All this bs about "oh, he didnt perform well in an interview", "he doesnt connect with the people" - I for one am sick of people/the media/the FG jibber element going on like its a Eurostar competition
, if I wanted a media man I'd bleedin make Marty Whelan Taoiseach, but since that not the essential role of the Taoiseach then why keep propogating "definitive" statements about aspects of Kenny's performance while are not crucial. All these PR types have blown up their own importance, Kenny has delievered at the polling booth, where it really matters. I really believe that we're moving into a post-spin era, where people can spot spoofing from a mile off, and policy and integrity will win votes and seats.
Strange as it seems, if Inda takes back Bruton as Finance, and otherwise picks his best front bench team (be they pro or anti) I think FG may emerge stronger. Lets face it, the way FF are going it almost inconceivable that the next government can be anything other than FG & Labour with FG probably the larger party.
p.s. I'm not in any official Inda fanclub, or a FG member, voted FG last time and FF the time before that (different constituency, all politics local etc). .. rant over
Ceist Beag
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I'm delighted for Inda, everyone whinges about politicians with no integrity or honesty, then they get one and he's not showbiz enough.
I've always thought of Kenny as a straight shooter type, a chairman, a leader in the sense of leading a party or a force as opposed to some sort of messianic figure that the media appear to want (Obama, the latest holy grail, hasnt stunned the world yet, though I like his intelligence & liberalism). Its ego that got Ireland into much of the trouble we're in, bankers who could walk on water, Bertie (self-congratulator supreme) and Cowen spending like there'd never be a poor day.
Inda is more pragmatic, his opponents have come across as jibbers who lost their nerve based on one opinion poll, and while I didnt necessarily agree with him sacking Bruton I think he could yet be the bigger man and offer Bruton his old job back - since its the best offering to the electorate. Kenny to bind and guide the party/government & let the "experts" get on with their expertise.
All this bs about "oh, he didnt perform well in an interview", "he doesnt connect with the people" - I for one am sick of people/the media/the FG jibber element going on like its a Eurostar competition
All these PR types have blown up their own importance, Kenny has delievered at the polling booth, where it really matters. I really believe that we're moving into a post-spin era, where people can spot spoofing from a mile off, and policy and integrity will win votes and seats.
Strange as it seems, if Inda takes back Bruton as Finance, and otherwise picks his best front bench team (be they pro or anti) I think FG may emerge stronger. Lets face it, the way FF are going it almost inconceivable that the next government can be anything other than FG & Labour with FG probably the larger party.
p.s. I'm not in any official Inda fanclub, or a FG member, voted FG last time and FF the time before that (different constituency, all politics local etc). .. rant over
+1 Betsy. Agree with pretty much all of that (aside maybe from Marty Whelan!
). As I said I also think Kenny is a man of integrity and is to me what you want in a politician, and he is completely different from what you get as leaders on the FF side.
S
sunrock
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No doubt Bruton is a better speaker than Enda Kenny, but his naked grab for to be leader of FG and then almost certainly the next taoiseach,was a bit nauseating.
And it was done on the flimsiest of reasons. He was trying to replace the man who had rebuilt the party and increased their TDs by 20 and is set to be the next taoiseach. Apparently their is no economic policy difference between Bruton and Kenny.Its just that Bruton would prefer to give the FG view as leader than as the economic spokesman.
Given the new situation, I am sure that Bruton and co will take advantage of Kennys offer to be in the shadow front bench again.They will do this without one iota of shame or embarrasment such is the fickleness of politics.
The simple truth is that Enda Kenny will get as many if not more seats for FG as Richard Bruton would in the next election. Apart from the media ,I think the public now realise that a media friendly figure like Bertie Ahearne or a know all like Cowen is not necessary any better for them than a less articulate but more genuine figure like Kenny.
And it was done on the flimsiest of reasons. He was trying to replace the man who had rebuilt the party and increased their TDs by 20 and is set to be the next taoiseach. Apparently their is no economic policy difference between Bruton and Kenny.Its just that Bruton would prefer to give the FG view as leader than as the economic spokesman.
Given the new situation, I am sure that Bruton and co will take advantage of Kennys offer to be in the shadow front bench again.They will do this without one iota of shame or embarrasment such is the fickleness of politics.
The simple truth is that Enda Kenny will get as many if not more seats for FG as Richard Bruton would in the next election. Apart from the media ,I think the public now realise that a media friendly figure like Bertie Ahearne or a know all like Cowen is not necessary any better for them than a less articulate but more genuine figure like Kenny.
My understanding is that McNamara was still only a preferred bidder - the process had not been completed, so the money was not in the project. Elsewhere, we've seen these projects being delivered with spectacular success e.g. schools bundles, Cork School of Music, National Maritime College, Criminal Courts of Justice and the soon to be opened National Convention Centre.
There are two very valid reasons why "popular" doesn't mean great: Haughey and Bertie. Officially the two most popular leaders of all time according to polling.
There is no denying Enda has taken FG from the pits left by Noonan, united them, built them up and made them more credible. There's no denying he has avoided the traps of popularism (to some extent), that he has integrity and has shown leadership this last week.
However, it isn't just this latest poll, in fact it looks like the movements against Kenny have been brewing for a while now, but there is a large public opinion that they just don't buy Enda as Taoiseach. For whatever reason, at a time when FF have left an open goal practically every month, Enda has failed to score.
He may have done well up to this point, but to mix sporting metaphors, is he the man to take them over the finish line? Given how low he is in the public polls, maybe not. I don't think Bruton is either, not anymore, maybe 12 months ago he was. But then he went very quiet, when he did speak, you could tell he didn't agree with "the party line", he wasn't convincing. I've seen that in others too.
Ivan Yates mentioned this morning that from what he'd heard (can't confirm) the final vote was very close, Enda won by 6. The split seems to be very definitely down the old lines it always was, East Vs West more or less. I just don't see this as a long term victory for Kenny.
FG should be way ahead out there at this time. They aren't and it's under his leadership they haven't capitalised on FF's slump.
There is no denying Enda has taken FG from the pits left by Noonan, united them, built them up and made them more credible. There's no denying he has avoided the traps of popularism (to some extent), that he has integrity and has shown leadership this last week.
However, it isn't just this latest poll, in fact it looks like the movements against Kenny have been brewing for a while now, but there is a large public opinion that they just don't buy Enda as Taoiseach. For whatever reason, at a time when FF have left an open goal practically every month, Enda has failed to score.
He may have done well up to this point, but to mix sporting metaphors, is he the man to take them over the finish line? Given how low he is in the public polls, maybe not. I don't think Bruton is either, not anymore, maybe 12 months ago he was. But then he went very quiet, when he did speak, you could tell he didn't agree with "the party line", he wasn't convincing. I've seen that in others too.
Ivan Yates mentioned this morning that from what he'd heard (can't confirm) the final vote was very close, Enda won by 6. The split seems to be very definitely down the old lines it always was, East Vs West more or less. I just don't see this as a long term victory for Kenny.
FG should be way ahead out there at this time. They aren't and it's under his leadership they haven't capitalised on FF's slump.
He consistantly refused to express an openion.
Sean Sherlock is the only one in that party with a sense of reality.
All Irish political partys should come up with plans to cut the deficit.
+1
The result of the vote suggests that a large proportion of FG politicians dont grasp this point. Their personal opinions of Enda are very different to those of the general public. If the public dont want Enda as Taoiseach, they will not win the next election full stop. Like it or not, public perception is everything in politics.
At this stage, the most likely outcome of an election will be FF, FG & Lab all returning similar numbers of TDs. But with a much higher number of Independents and smaller parties (except Greens) thus meaning that any combination of 2 of the big parties will not be a comfortable majority. I think a lot of floating voters, who without Enda would have voted FG, are now going to use their protest vote differently.
Maybe Enda is the Rafa Benitez of politics. Nice guy and all that and of some genuine ability, just lacking that je ne sais quoi of winners.
But then remember those who supported Enda (apart from O'Reilly) are largely from the West and rural areas, maybe they do hear different things to those who are worried about their support and seats in the Dublin area. It still points to a party not listening. The hardcore FG in the west will vote FG even if Bertie switches to FG and becomes leader...maybe not...but they will support whoever the leader is. They aren't the people to be listening to when things are this close, it's those who genuinely haven't made their minds up and aren't convinced Kenny is the man.
They're the people the "rebels" were encountering on a daily basis in their areas, the "I would vote FG, but I'm not sure about Enda". Nobody want's to hear they've possibly taken things as far as they can, but he's going to have to do something pretty special in the short term to turn this around.
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That is factually untrue.
Yeah, that Google search facility is just sooo tricky, isn't it. Strange how the poster that moans about a 2-page document then doesn't look beyond the first page, to seeYou are right. Sign me up.
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A two page document on a 5 year education policy. WOW!
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But I'm sure you'll continue to nitpick, rather than actually engaging on the content. You indicated that Labour had no policies. The policies are all there, and continue to evolve.
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If they publish the detailed analysis, you'll complain about it being impenetrable and unreadable. If they publish the highlights, you complain about the lack of sophistication.
Let's stop pretending - you just don't like Labour policies and values. But please stop the erroneous nitpicking - it doesn't really add anything to the debate.
+1 Latrade.
Enda needs to either have an affair. Maybe with Carla Bruni or Angelina Jolie ( or both?), then repent, be seen dishevelled with some stubble for a bit, beg forgiveness of Mrs.K and tell us all how sorry he is.
Or have a very ill child ( yes, I know this is in poor taste, but this is the reality of public perception), cancer or some other devastating illness. Then appear teary eyed in several interviews.
Or appear to be a bit of a rogue in a harmless, but potentially illegal ( in the grey area as the irish percieve things- which would be black for our english neighbours) way.
Or have a gay affair- no scratch that one, don't think we're ready for that yet.
Or something, anything except his bland general goody two shoes sort of way.
Where the hell are the pr people?
Or have a very ill child ( yes, I know this is in poor taste, but this is the reality of public perception), cancer or some other devastating illness. Then appear teary eyed in several interviews.
Or appear to be a bit of a rogue in a harmless, but potentially illegal ( in the grey area as the irish percieve things- which would be black for our english neighbours) way.
Or have a gay affair- no scratch that one, don't think we're ready for that yet.
Or something, anything except his bland general goody two shoes sort of way.
Where the hell are the pr people?
Think about it from the "average voter" view. Aside from a relatively small minority of interested/committed supporters, how many actively go onto the various party websites and read all the policies? It's a sad fact that most voters will get their information from the media and soundbites.
And so outside of the website, how much specific content have we seen from Gilmore? Well purely from my own view, not much. I've actually heard more specific information given by Rabbitte, and being honest some of it isn't bad (there's a caveat to that). The point is take the clips of Gilmore and what do we actually have in terms of content? We have stabs at the government, well they deserve it, we have a statement saying he'll let the unions decide on Croke Park (yes but Eamon, what do you think of the content, not the process?) and we know what he doesn't like about the government policies.
But without seeking out the information from the website, you wouldn't know half the policies or specifics. The Labour party has them, but Gilmore isn't exactly drawing attention to them when he's in public (I'll concede others in the party are to some extent).
So it is valid to say he's style over substance. And it is an issue given that the majority of voters won't be downloading policy documents off a party's website. That's not Gilmore's problem I'd accept.
The caveat to the Labour policies is that when you do strip them down, yes they are valid and yes they have a point, but that point seems to be accepting many of the cuts highlighted in McCarthy and others. They seem to actually agree with the government on many things, but not on social welfare and a few others. And so that's where I can't support them just yet, we have to consider all expenditure in my opinion.
But for all the sniping, by and large they're still going to follow the programme of cuts and savings, including the pay for the PS/CS.
Elaine Byrne (TCD Politics lecturer, Irish Times columnist) was tweeting links to pieces this week about the FG urban/rural divide. When the Green Isle 9 appeared on the plinth on Monday, Brian Hayes and Leo Varadkar were kept to the back and Denis Naughten was pushed up front, aside Olwyn Enright. And Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South) but since she was the only other woman in the group, it was more opportunistic to position her at the front.
If only they had put similar thought into rallying the rest of the parliamentary party.
I likes Miriam Lord's tagline this morning "Cappuccino generation falls to those who eat dinner at midday"
Why should I have to use Google instead of the the Labour website to see what their ideas are?
And you can stop using policy documents from 2004 and 2005 to defend your assertion that Labour have been releasing major policy initiatives on a pretty regular basis. So again, what are their policies considering the new economic climate we live in?
You have no idea what my political views are. I have criticised every political party over various issues on this forum.