ICTUs 'Get Up, Stand Up campaign'

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csirl said:
I would have thought that if the unions came out and said something akin to "we'll help cut the public service pay bill........we'll support cutting public sector numbers by e.g. 10%......and the remaining employees will agree to redeployments and taking on the workload of the 10% who leave...etc. etc." then they would be taken seriously as, to be honest, cutting surplus staff in programme areas that have their funding (workload) reduced is the best way to cut the public sector pay bill
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I don't think that would look too good. Sacrifice 10% so that 90% continue to enjoy their current level ofl wages?
 
DerKaiser said:
I don't think that would look too good. Sacrifice 10% so that 90% continue to enjoy their current level ofl wages?
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Its a starting point. A saving of 10% from staff cuts is the same as a 10% saving from pay cuts from the exchequer's point of view. As I've said many times on various threads before, it is better to get rid of surplus employees than to have the remainder of the workforce take a pay cut in order to keep these surplus employees on the payroll doing nothing.

I actually believe that there is more scope for savings from staff cuts than pay cuts. With pay cuts, politically speaking, you're not going to be able to go beyond single digit percentages for most, particularly since a 7.5% pay cut has already taken place. There are politically inspired agencies where you could cut 100% of the staff without any impact on public services. In admin heavy local politics dominated organisations such as the HSE, you could easily cut around 20% of the staff (mostly on the admin side - hangover from health boards e.g.the plethora of "assistant national directors" and their staff) and have little or no impact on services.
 
csirl said:
Its a starting point. A saving of 10% from staff cuts is the same as a 10% saving from pay cuts from the exchequer's point of view. As I've said many times on various threads before, it is better to get rid of surplus employees than to have the remainder of the workforce take a pay cut in order to keep these surplus employees on the payroll doing nothing.
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What union official could ever say that publically though? It may be what they'd accept and may be what will happen, but it would have to be behind closed doors. There's no way they could ever say that before any discussion in public.
 
So, how many AAM posters are ready for the ''Get UP, Stand Up campaign on Friday. From the count on this thread it appears about 2.
 
csirl said:
Its a starting point. A saving of 10% from staff cuts is the same as a 10% saving from pay cuts from the exchequer's point of view. As I've said many times on various threads before, it is better to get rid of surplus employees than to have the remainder of the workforce take a pay cut in order to keep these surplus employees on the payroll doing nothing

I actually believe that there is more scope for savings from staff cuts than pay cuts. With pay cuts, politically speaking, you're not going to be able to go beyond single digit percentages for most, particularly since a 7.5% pay cut has already taken place. There are politically inspired agencies where you could cut 100% of the staff without any impact on public services. In admin heavy local politics dominated organisations such as the HSE, you could easily cut around 20% of the staff (mostly on the admin side - hangover from health boards e.g.the plethora of "assistant national directors" and their staff) and have little or no impact on services.
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I don't think putting 30,000 public sector workers on the dole would be a good idea.

I would agree, however, that a uniform across the board cut without reform is not the best solution either.
 
I`d be in favor of a pay cut for all public sector employees.Say 10% for each public servant.If one cut 10% of the jobs,then these workers would just go straight on the dole which would cost the government more than the reduced tax from the pay cut.The other thing to bear in mind is the real cost of the downturn is going to be borne by all those people coming into the job market.....school leavers and graduates who will find a public sector embargo.This will result in the greying ..hair that is... of the remaining public sector employees and unemployed youth. The problem is there is no where to emigrate to anymore.
 
Nobody here is qualified to give a precise % pay cut that should be inflicted on people. I don't care how the Government save the money on the public sector pay bill as long as they do it.
 
Besides the Public Sector Trade Unions who else do you think will turn up? - let me guess - Sinn Fein, People before Profit, Socialist Party of Ireland, Communist Party of Ireland, Youth Defence, Shell to Sea, every other protest group with an axe to grind and nowhere to protest. In short all the usual suspects. All we need now is for Joe Coleman to show up too.
 
johnd said:
Besides the Public Sector Trade Unions who else do you think will turn up? - let me guess - Sinn Fein, People before Profit, Socialist Party of Ireland, Communist Party of Ireland, Youth Defence, Shell to Sea, every other protest group with an axe to grind and nowhere to protest. In short all the usual suspects. All we need now is for Joe Coleman to show up too.
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And me !
Not alligned to any of the groups mentioned above.
 
Deiseblue said:
And me !
Not alligned to any of the groups mentioned above.
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Personally speaking, what exactly will you be protesting about?

If it is simply a case of "leave my job, pay and all conditions associated with it alone", what do you suggest as an alternative to the dept. of finance deficit?
 
Well how thought out was benchmarking over the last 10 years?
Roll back benchmarking then to 2000 levels.
The problem is our public service is overpaid.Also the public sector employees should be flexible enough to be moved to areas where the workload is heavier..like in our social welfare offices.The alternative is job cuts and redundancies and a public sector embargo. There will still be a small amount of jobs coming on stream but one would need serious connections to get them.
I also think job sharing or part time work is a good idea.
 
sunrock said:
Well how thought out was benchmarking over the last 10 years?
Roll back benchmarking then to 2000 levels.
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Close to 30% cuts there (if we allow for inflation), maybe 10% shouldn't be so unpalatable to public servants after all!
 
sunrock said:
Well how thought out was benchmarking over the last 10 years?
Roll back benchmarking then to 2000 levels.
The problem is our public service is overpaid.Also the public sector employees should be flexible enough to be moved to areas where the workload is heavier..like in our social welfare offices.The alternative is job cuts and redundancies and a public sector embargo. There will still be a small amount of jobs coming on stream but one would need serious connections to get them.
I also think job sharing or part time work is a good idea.
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Job sharing and part time hours have been available for years in the Public Service. Staff have already been moved from Govt Departments to ramp up the service in social welfare offices. There is already a Public Service embargo and 'connections' will not get you a job in most public service organisations. In fact, trying to use connections will get you barred from competitions for jobs in the public service and this is stated on all application forms.
 
johnd said:
Besides the Public Sector Trade Unions who else do you think will turn up? - let me guess - Sinn Fein, People before Profit, Socialist Party of Ireland, Communist Party of Ireland, Youth Defence, Shell to Sea, every other protest group with an axe to grind and nowhere to protest. In short all the usual suspects. All we need now is for Joe Coleman to show up too.
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Did you forget the very militant employees of private companys whom will be put at the top of the march (to show the private sector support), with big banners like ;SR Technics or maybe Coca Cola !! Was thinking of waterford crystal ,oh but they dont exsist any longer.....
 
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