high water table and damp from neighbour

Hi! Liteweight and Extopia, I talked to the damp course specialist today, and he recommended 'tanking' if the neighbour next door would not sort the problem out on his side. Can either of you enlighten me as to what exactly 'tanking' (if that is the spelling) is. Apparently floors can also be tanked. Thanks. ElaineM
 
As far as I know, tanking is a mixture of cement and a latex stuff which is trowelled onto the walls and floor. It's used to damp proof cellars and such like where the water table might be a problem. When they've done this they put up the laths and dry line the wall!:D Good solution I suppose but what's the bill going to be.........much, much less I hope.
 
Have you ever approached this neighbour and shown him the results of his leaking shower? Obnoxious or not, surely he will realise that if there is this much damage on your side, his own side is far worse and it should be fixed. If the worst came to the worst, it might be better for you to pay for fixing his leak than trying to remedy it from your side, which is a project doomed to failure.

Tanking is OK in a basement, but I wouldn't do it in a kitchen to be honest. You'd still have to fix your floor afterwards.

What's your estate agent's take on the kind of remedial work you should be doing?
 
Lite


weight and extopia - thanks again for your comments. Extopia, I haven't showed the neigbour the effects of this particular problem yet. He has the house rented out most of the time to students. His lack of care of his own house has previously caused damage to my roof which he refused to pay for, and I had to get fixed myself - bearing the total cost - though I did not mind as I just wanted the probelm fixed.

My estate agent thinks I should do as little as possibe. However. I'm afraid the sate of the kitchen will put buyers off.

Extopia, if you don't think tanking is suitable for a kitchen, can you tell me what solution you would use for an area with a high water table, where water seepage appears to be happening from underground also - e.g. effloresence on floor and mould growth on floor also. Do I need drainage around the side of the house etc.

Thanks, ElaineM.
 
Hi Elaine - no need to repost the details of the problem again.

The proper solution is the first suggestion of your damp proof specialist - dig up the floor and put in a damp proof membrane. For the walls, if there is no DPC, either inject with the special chemical referenced above, or alternatively use an electro-osmosis system, which is basically a wire in the wall that repels the moisture. I installed this latter system myself a couple of years ago and working well. Much less invasive than the injection system.

If there is water seeping through your walls from a faulty shower installation next door, there is nothing you can really do about it to be honest, except cover it up with a good stabiliser and paint job and hope for the best.
 
If the kitchen is down a level i.e. long hall, couple of steps down, then it's quite feasible to tank it, I think. It would certainly get you over the sale period. The floor is lifted and treated also so you're effectively creating a water tight box. If water is coming in from next door, tanking should stop it unless the flow is very heavy. This is why it's used for basement etc. which are totally below street level.

As for the tiles on the floor...a lot of houses in D4 have this problem, the reason being that the tiles were laid directly onto the sandy soil. I'm not a builder and am only passing on my experience of renovating.
 
Extopia, so the best idea would be a drain below the level of dampcourse outside, digging up the floor and putting a waterproof membrane on it, and using damp coursing walls with electric charge method which repels water. I presume there would be no problem in putting back the original kitchen when the work is finished. Sorry, I have to put everything in layman's terms, as I find it all a bit mind boggling.

Liteweight, you're right about the kitchen being at the end of a long hallway and down steps. It is actually down three steps. There was a damp course in it originally, put in in 1989, but it seems to have been breached. I really don't know why the water table has risen -and I don't know how to find this out. I know the kitchen area doesn't comply with regulations, as in it is not suficienlty above the ground outside in the yard. There was nothing mymother could do about this at the time, as it would have meant altering the structure of the house, which is a listed building - plus the ceiling in the kitchen itself is actually quite low. Do you still think tanking would work?

I don't want to mention damp proofing specialist names. I have contacted one in Crumlin, and have the name of another in Blackrock (not Damp Store). Both are well known damp coursing specialists. Would either of you rater one of these above the other, or have any other recommendations.

Finally, what chance is there that the damp could affect the foundations. If I put in a waterproof membrane/tank and dig a drain outside, does that mean the water is still under the house? Any advice again appreciated. I find the whole thing confusing - it seems like I'm getting a crash course in building and damp proofing lingo!!
 
Hi elaine - yes, that's what I would do if I were living in this house myself. The drain outside is probably a bit of overkill, but I suppose it depends on how wet the ground is.

As I've said before, I probably would not do this if I was about to sell the house, but that's up to you.

Can't comment on damp specialists in Dublin. Used the Damp Store about 10 years ago for chemical injection, which has begun to show signs of failure in a couple of spots.
 
Elaine, I thing you're 'over thinking' the situation due to stress! You're selling so do what it takes to get the place in order. I'm not suggesting you cover anything up. Everything you've mentioned so far are decent if expensive jobs. Digging the drain outside might prove more hassle than it's worth as the building is listed. I thought they made you jump through all kinds of hoops before they let you do anything major? Like Extopia, I used Damp Store and found them good but it's a long time ago now. No breakthroughs yet, thankfully.
 
Extopia, Lurdemor and liteweight, thanks again for your replies. I think I'll probably go with tanking and new damp proof membrane on the floor. I have planning permisson to deal with damp, but don't know if that would include digging a drain.

Liteweight - You're probably right, I am overthinking the situation due to stress. I find it difficult dealing with this situation when I'm on my own with two small kids, and not having an idea about building or property mainteanance. But I really appreciate all of your advice and contributions. At least I'll feel much more knowledgeable when discussing these issues with damp specialists, and also in relation to negotiating a much better price.
 
elainem said:
I think I'll probably go with tanking and new damp proof membrane on the floor.
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Don't forget the DMP on the floor is the original "€100k solution."

A floor DPM will not prevent rising damp getting above the floor level through the foundations and walls, so you need to take care of this either by chemical injection, electro-osmosis system, or physical damp proof course built into the walls. "Tanking" might take care of the effects in the short term but if you're going to go this route (and I pity the buyer of your house) why bother with the floor DPM?

Find a builder you can trust, or someone you can trust to deal with a builder. You're going around in circles with this, in my opinion, and you're about to waste a lot of money.
 
extopia said:
A floor DPM will not prevent rising damp getting above the floor level through the foundations and walls, so you need to take care of this either by chemical injection, electro-osmosis system, or physical damp proof course built into the walls. "Tanking" might take care of the effects in the short term but if you're going to go this route (and I pity the buyer of your house) why bother with the floor DPM?
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A floor DPM will usually rise up the wall to a certain extent...it will stop water rising up and will keep the floor dry. Tanking is designed to prevent water seeping in from the outside and is mainly used in cellars. Elaine's mother has already tried to solve this problem but was not allowed. The original 100K quote also included dropping the soil levels outside.

It's a little unfair to pity the buyer...lots of people would have dry lined the walls and put the house on the market. Buyer beware!! Their architect should spot any flaw. Elaine is doing her best to solve the problem.

I would talk to the neighbour. As his house is up for sale, he might be willing to turn the water off at the mains, particularly if you pass the message on through the EA.
 
Its worth noting that the existence of rising damp is a contentious subject. Many problems attributed to RD may actually be caused by condensation, and water ingress from other sources rather than water rising through the structure . It seems that in this specific instance a rise in the water table is the issue. I wonder however if neighbours are experiencing the same problem?.



http://www.konrad-fischer-info.de/2auffen.htm
 
liteweight said:
A floor DPM will usually rise up the wall to a certain extent...
Click to expand...

While this might sometimes be true in a new construction it is difficult to implement in a renovation context. The DPM is laid under the subfloor and lapped up around the SIDES to the top of the floor finish. You can't extend it it into the walls without taking out a course of bricks or blocks.
 
Question to the original poster. Are the windows in the property double glazed units?
 
Good point about condensation - I'd assumed that this might have been ruled out, but assumptions are dangerous.

Good ventilation is important for preventing condensation, especially in moisture prone areas like kitchens and bathrooms. Are there permanent vents in place in your kitchen, or any other openings leading to the outside, such as an open fireplace?
 
Duplex and extopia - how do I know if it is condensation. The damp specialist did say the effloresence on the floor was due to condensation. I just didn't understand how this could be. Duplex - the windows are double glazed, but they are the windows my mother put in in 1989, and there was no damp for 13 years after she renovated the property at that time. I do know that the tenants now are drying clothes on a clothes horse in the kitchen, and that the kitchen which is 22 feet by 15 feet is always cluttered, not dirty,but just madly cluttered - I don't know if this contributes to any condensation. Can either of you tell me how condensation actually arises and what role it actually plays in rising damp and effloresence?

The other problem which I feel may be contributing to the damp is the raised flower bed on the opposite wall in the yard to the kitchen. I recently removed all plants. They had become very overgrown, the clematis was just wild, and I felt that when it rained that the water from these plants was dripping onto my yard, causing a green film to appear on it. I don't know if these overgrown plants in the garden were a contributory cause to the damp.

I still can't understand how the damp course became bridged after thriteen or so years. I though these were at least a twenty year job. Extopia, did you say that you had damp proofing done in your house, and it is now coming through again. How does a damp course become bridged? God, what a learning curve!!
 
This link explains the causes and effects of condensation elainem. In a nutshell it's when moisture laden air comes into contact with a relatively cold surface and condenses i.e changes from a gas to a liquid. As extopia mentions adequate ventilation is important in ensuring sufficient air circulation/changes. A kitchen with cooking and clothes drying needs plenty of passive ventilation, needless to say.
 
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