I'm looking to fit weather compensation on my Ideal Independent gas boil my west Dublin home. I am finding it difficult to find anyone who can fit them. They seem to offer incredible benefits. I don't understand why they are not more widely adopted. If there is any engineer who can install them, can you message me? Thanks a lot.
Gas boiler weather compensation
- Thread starter Babhdan
- Start date
Cannot name an installer sorry, but just provide some feedback on weather compensation.
We had an oil boiler with a couple of Nests controlling the zones. We swapped to a heatpump at the beginning of the year that uses weather compensation instead of internal temperature sensors like Nests. In general the heatpump is brilliant; vastly cheaper than the kerosene and heating a house constantly and slowly is so much nicer than the heat-cool-heat-cool cycle of boilers. But weather compensation feels like a bit of a hack to avoid developing internal sensors. I think I have it dialled in now, but it’s taken months of tweaking the heating curve (outdoor temperature to flow temperature), angle and levels and I cannot help but feel that I’m basically acting as the internal temperature sensor and manually training an AI
.
In summary I think weather compensation can be made work and is much better than manually turning your boiler on/off. But if you have the option to install an internal smart sensor like a Nest, it will keep your house at the correct temperature right out of the box and if you make changes to the house (more insulation or whatever) you don’t need to train it again - it’s vastly superior. This is particularly the case with oil/gas boilers where it’s OK to turn them on/off frequently (less ideal with a heatpump).
We had an oil boiler with a couple of Nests controlling the zones. We swapped to a heatpump at the beginning of the year that uses weather compensation instead of internal temperature sensors like Nests. In general the heatpump is brilliant; vastly cheaper than the kerosene and heating a house constantly and slowly is so much nicer than the heat-cool-heat-cool cycle of boilers. But weather compensation feels like a bit of a hack to avoid developing internal sensors. I think I have it dialled in now, but it’s taken months of tweaking the heating curve (outdoor temperature to flow temperature), angle and levels and I cannot help but feel that I’m basically acting as the internal temperature sensor and manually training an AI
.In summary I think weather compensation can be made work and is much better than manually turning your boiler on/off. But if you have the option to install an internal smart sensor like a Nest, it will keep your house at the correct temperature right out of the box and if you make changes to the house (more insulation or whatever) you don’t need to train it again - it’s vastly superior. This is particularly the case with oil/gas boilers where it’s OK to turn them on/off frequently (less ideal with a heatpump).
The one thing to remember with any heat pump is that the flow temperature is critical to getting a good SCOP (Seasonal Coefficient Of Performance or efficiency in other words) i.e. the lower the flow temperature the better the SCOP and the only way of finding the best (lowest) heat curve (both level and slope) for your particular system and home combination is by trial and error and the home owner is best placed to do this. While your installer will set it up initially, in a lot of cases he/she will set it up in such a way that they are not called back because of a cold house resulting in the flow temperatures being not optimal (too high). Unfortunately, most home owners find this out only when their esb bills arrive.Cannot name an installer sorry, but just provide some feedback on weather compensation.
We had an oil boiler with a couple of Nests controlling the zones. We swapped to a heatpump at the beginning of the year that uses weather compensation instead of internal temperature sensors like Nests. In general the heatpump is brilliant; vastly cheaper than the kerosene and heating a house constantly and slowly is so much nicer than the heat-cool-heat-cool cycle of boilers. But weather compensation feels like a bit of a hack to avoid developing internal sensors. I think I have it dialled in now, but it’s taken months of tweaking the heating curve (outdoor temperature to flow temperature), angle and levels and I cannot help but feel that I’m basically acting as the internal temperature sensor and manually training an AI
In summary I think weather compensation can be made work and is much better than manually turning your boiler on/off. But if you have the option to install an internal smart sensor like a Nest, it will keep your house at the correct temperature right out of the box and if you make changes to the house (more insulation or whatever) you don’t need to train it again - it’s vastly superior. This is particularly the case with oil/gas boilers where it’s OK to turn them on/off frequently (less ideal with a heatpump).
The tweaking of the heat curve is essential to determining the correct flow temperatures for different weather conditions. Using a heat curve and 3rd party indoor sensors for zone control is like driving a car with a foot on the accelerator and the brake at the same time i.e. two controlers competing against each other and will result generally in a poorer SCOP and therefore higher bills.
So @Zenith63, if you are happy with your SCOP (low bills) and are comfortable then my advice is to leave well enough alone and don't add any zone controllers (except maybe in zones prone to high solar gain for example but then only use them as temperature limiters)
Makes sense, thanks!
Where does weather compensation fit in when it comes to gas boilers? Am I right in saying internal sensors are preferable if possible?
There is, imo, no single simple answer unfortunately.
Weather comp for high temp systems such as gas modulating boilers is not as critical imo because the response time is generally comparatively quite fast so 3rd party zone control can work well. But then again it depends on the heating regime in the house to begin with, for example, weather comp would be more beneficial in situations where the house is kept within a narrow band of temperatures (say between 19 & 21 degC) rather than allowing the house to cool significantly during periods of unoccupancy (e.g. everyone out at school / working).
It's like a lot of these type of questions, it depends!
Weather comp for high temp systems such as gas modulating boilers is not as critical imo because the response time is generally comparatively quite fast so 3rd party zone control can work well. But then again it depends on the heating regime in the house to begin with, for example, weather comp would be more beneficial in situations where the house is kept within a narrow band of temperatures (say between 19 & 21 degC) rather than allowing the house to cool significantly during periods of unoccupancy (e.g. everyone out at school / working).
It's like a lot of these type of questions, it depends!
presidenttttt
Registered User
- Messages
- 277
I am unconvinced by weather comp on a gas boiler.
Heat pumps are designed to run on the lowest heat possible for long periods on low power, so weather comp makes sense as you are operating at the margins of "too cold".
Gas on the other hand is designed for hot hot water and rapid heating.
We had TADO in previous gas heated house (which isolated radiators closed either on a timer or room thermostat or both). It reduced our KW equivalent by +15%, by only heating unused rooms every other day or when they fell below a defined low temp. This is likely to payback far quicker than toying with gas weather comp on heating systems designed for hot water.
Heat pumps are designed to run on the lowest heat possible for long periods on low power, so weather comp makes sense as you are operating at the margins of "too cold".
Gas on the other hand is designed for hot hot water and rapid heating.
We had TADO in previous gas heated house (which isolated radiators closed either on a timer or room thermostat or both). It reduced our KW equivalent by +15%, by only heating unused rooms every other day or when they fell below a defined low temp. This is likely to payback far quicker than toying with gas weather comp on heating systems designed for hot water.
In theory though, real weather compensation with an actual local sensor should make heating more comfortable and stable. Running the boiler on modulating prob causes less wear and tear too