Garda pay

[Purple]

I the discussion about pay for the gardai has anyone calculated what the weekly value of their pension is? Remember they retire at 55.
I remember in 2009 the average value of their pension fund at retirement was €1,100,000. What would someone have to put into their fund each week for 30 years to get a fund that size?
The average pension is over with the average tax free lump sum at over €100,000.
What would that cost a month?
Taking that into account what's their real income?

Do the headline figures we hear include pensionable expenses? If it's pensionable then it's income.

 

[Firefly]

I the discussion about pay for the gardai has anyone calculated what the weekly value of their pension is? Remember they retire at 55.
I remember in 2009 the average value of their pension fund at retirement was €1,100,000. What would someone have to put into their fund each week for 30 years to get a fund that size?
The average pension is over with the average tax free lump sum at over €100,000.
What would that cost a month?
Taking that into account what's their real income?

Do the headline figures we hear include pensionable expenses? If it's pensionable then it's income.

There was a recently-retired Garda on Claire Byrne last night (giving out) who looked younger than me!

 

[Firefly]

The average pension is over with the average tax free lump sum at over €100,000.

Another question I would like the answer to. Do public servants even meet the cost of their lump-sum, never mind the pension itself?

 

[elacsaplau]

The reality is that Garda pay is shocking - not at all what it should be. That's why when vacancies for new recruits are advertised, there is essentially zero interest from the general public because the pay and conditions, actual and deferred, are so awful.

 

[Purple]

The reality is that Garda pay is shocking - not at all what it should be. That's why when vacancies for new recruits are advertised, there is essentially zero interest from the general public because the pay and conditions, actual and deferred, are so awful.

There are almost 30 applicants for each vacancy in the force. Hardly what I'd call no interest.

New recruits pay-scale below:

Garda Recruits

on Attestation at 32 weeks €23,750

Year 1 €25,472
Year 2 €28,302
Year 3 €29,834
Year 4 €32,407
Year 5 €35,840
Year 6 €38,110
Year 7 €40,163
Year 8 €42,138
Year 9 €42,138
Year 10 €42,138
Year 11 €42,138
Year 12 €42,138
Year 13 €43,857
Year 14 €43,857
Year 15 €43,857
Year 16 €43,857
Year 17 €43,857
Year 18 €43,857
Year 19 €45,793


This link shows that allowances add between 25 and 30% to their salary and overtime can also be worked.
We should also take into account the fact that they can retire so young and the corresponding pension cost and therefore its value. Should that be another 30 or 40% onto the value of their package?
I don't know what the average real income for new recruits is but the €23,750 figure is a lie. It would be nice to see the truth being reported in these matters.

I think they should be well paid and that they generally do an excellent job but why not have the discussion honestly? In my opinion they should be paid more than teachers and nurses but being able to retire in your early 50's is a massive bonus.

 

[elacsaplau]

There are almost 30 applicants for each vacancy in the force. Hardly what I'd call no interest.

My point exactly - although admittedly, you adopted a more straightforward approach to highlighting how attractive the "market" views the role! (I thought my sarcasm was sufficiently obvious!) Actually, upon reflection, my post was just silly!

I think they should be well paid and that they generally do an excellent job but why not have the discussion honestly? In my opinion they should be paid more than teachers and nurses.....

Now - I am being serious - I think it is very debatable that they
1. Generally do an excellent job, and
2. Should be paid more than nurses and teachers

 

[Delboy]

Q2 CSO Stats
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpub...urcostsq12016finalq22016preliminaryestimates/

Three of the seven public sector sub-sectors had annual increases in average weekly earnings, with an Garda Siochánarecording the largest rise of 4.7% from €1,245.30 to €1,304.11 in the year to Q2 2016....
...An Garda Siochána had the next highest earnings with average hourly earnings in the year to Q2 2016 of €30.52 and also worked the longest hours of 42.7 hours.

Garda Siochana 2016Q2
Employment (Number) 12800
Average Hourly Earnings excluding Irregular Earnings (Euro) 25.04
Average Weekly Earnings (Euro) 1304.11
Average Hourly Earnings (Euro) 30.52
Average Weekly Paid Hours (Hours) 42.7
Average hourly irregular earnings (Euro) 5.48
Average hourly other labour costs (Euro) 2.42
Average hourly total labour costs (Euro) 32.93

So average annual income of €68k. Not bad at all and retirement with pension after 30 years as the icing on the cake.
Also, can a monetary value also be applied to them getting free entry, without queing, to Coppers and other nightclubs around the country

 

[Purple]

If the pay and pension is so attractive for older members of the force why are they not offering to take a very small reduction in pay in order to level out the pay for newer members?

I suppose the same can be said for teachers. Maybe a very small reduction in pensions for retired teachers and Gardai could be introduced so that newer recruits get the same pay and conditions as existing members?

 

[elacsaplau]

If the pay and pension is so attractive for older members of the force why are they not offering to take a very small reduction in pay in order to level out the pay for newer members?

...coz that's not the way things work around here, boy!

 

[Firefly]

If the pay and pension is so attractive for older members of the force why are they not offering to take a very small reduction in pay in order to level out the pay for newer members?

I suppose the same can be said for teachers. Maybe a very small reduction in pensions for retired teachers and Gardai could be introduced so that newer recruits get the same pay and conditions as existing members?

Why should they when they can just go on strike and let everyone else pick up the tab?

As I've said before, the last time I wasn't happy with my pay & benefits I looked for a different job.

 

[Vanessa]

Any group of workers who seek to better themselves will be attacked by someone. In this world if you want something you go out and get it yourself. No one else will give it to you.
Be it nurses teachers guards tram drivers no one was running around saying to give them a pay rise.
Many ofthose criticising the unions are tax dodgers in the private sector who feature on every list from Revenue

 

[Delboy]

Many ofthose criticising the unions are tax dodgers in the private sector who feature on every list from Revenue

Wow

 

[Purple]

Any group of workers who seek to better themselves will be attacked by someone.

Bettering yourself is not the same thing as looking for more money to do the same job.

In this world if you want something you go out and get it yourself. No one else will give it to you.

Or you could earn it rather than just looking for more money for doing the same job.

Be it nurses teachers guards tram drivers no one was running around saying to give them a pay rise.

That's because all of them, with the exception of nurses, are regarded as well paid and there are dozens of people queuing up for every available job. That tells us that they are paid at or above an open market rate.

Many of those criticising the unions are tax dodgers in the private sector who feature on every list from Revenue

Upon what do you base that assumption?

 

[Gerry Canning]

I just can,t see that Garda pay is that bad.
It appears they genuinely appear to believe they are hard done by v other sectors.
If so ,can they please join the long {hard done by queue} !

 

[Purple]

Maybe they should be paid more but the BS that they are on €410 a week is well, BS.

 

[Sunny]

Maybe they should be paid more but the BS that they are on €410 a week is well, BS.

I don't think anyone is claiming that's what they all earn as standard. However, I recently saw the pay cheque of a young guard from the country but based in Dublin and is absolutely shocked me. How this person could be expected to rent in this city was beyond me. We are going to end up like London where essential staff like guards and nurses can't afford to live in the capital city without significant allowances. And it's all very well to throw out lines like 'if I wasn't happy with my wages, I would leave' but that ignores the simple fact that many good people want to be guards or nurses or some other public sector worker. I don't have to wear a stab vest to work and I have no desire to whatever the pay. So unless we are quiet happy to fill our guards, nurses, teachers etc with people who are just happy to have a job no matter what the pay and conditions instead of having people who want to do the job and see it as a career, then maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge. However, I have to say that whatever about the guards, the ASTI dispute amazes me. Older teachers sold out their young colleagues at the last agreement. No point telling us you are doing it for them now. Stop your greedy retired members taking paid exam work then for a start.

 

[Purple]

I agree that there should be a "Dublin allowance" for Gardai and perhaps for other State employees.

 

[michaelm]

So unless we are quiet happy to fill our guards, nurses, teachers etc with people who are just happy to have a job no matter what the pay and conditions instead of having people who want to do the job and see it as a career, then maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge.

It's hard to understand why anyone wants to be a Guard or a nurse at this stage, I don't think either job is worth the pay given the conditions. There should be twice as many Guards and many more beds in hospitals. It's time for an end to FEMPI and the PS Pension Levy/Tax too and if the PS unions weren't spineless then FEMPI would be gone already.

 

[cremeegg]

There are 30 applicants for every vacancy in the Gardai, they don't need a pay rise.

There are many many qualified applicants for every teaching position, they don't need a pay rise.

The HSE cannot recruit enough nurses, they need a pay rise.

 

[michaelm]

There are 30 applicants for every vacancy in the Gardai, they don't need a pay rise.

That's a tad simplistic. Should the fact that there would likely be multiple applications for your job rule out the possibility of a pay rise for you? What we really need is more Gardaí.