Financial Order of Operations and Dave Ramsey

Dublin85

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Hi all. I see a lot of online content from the above USA financial advisors regarding personal finance. while helpful for the ordinary guy like me, just looking to improve my average finances, they are geared towards the American Market. How would somebody alter Dave Ramseys Baby Steps for the Irish Landscape with regard to pensions and debts etc. thanks
 
Mathematically,of course you should pay off the highest interest loan first.What Dave Ramsey has identified is that the likelihood of someone sticking with accelerated debt repayments and the associated hardship that goes with it (rice and beans!) is greatly increased with a few early wins by killing small debts early in the process.
 
Dave Ramsey idea of paying small debt first is to get you a bit of momentum and try and see that the steps are working as quick as possible. The money guys do look at high interest debt first. From a cashflow point the money guys will be cheaper but Dave Ramsey is kept simply and aimed at people who need more motivation to get their finances in order.

With certain other steps things like taxes are different so may impact on the outcome.
 
Mathematically,of course you should pay off the highest interest loan first.What Dave Ramsey has identified is that the likelihood of someone sticking with accelerated debt repayments and the associated hardship that goes with it (rice and beans!) is greatly increased with a few early wins by killing small debts early in the process.
Is there any evidence that his approach is more effective? Has he really identified this or is it just advice in the style of a diet or lifestyle guru?
 
Is there any evidence that his approach is more effective? Has he really identified this or is it just advice in the style of a diet or lifestyle guru?
It's lifestyle guru advice aimed at getting the financially illiterate to buy his books and online courses.
 
Whilst the logical thing to do is to prioritise the loan that attracts the highest interest rate, potentially there’s merit in killing-off a cheaper loan more quickly if it generates momentum and keeps the person motivated. It depends on the individual.
 
Whilst the logical thing to do is to prioritise the loan that attracts the highest interest rate, potentially there’s merit in killing-off a cheaper loan more quickly if it generates momentum and keeps the person motivated. It depends on the individual.
ya he mentioned that debt is a behavioural issue before a mathematical issue and that by clearing a smaller debt first people will build momentum to attack k the next one.

I don't agree with his advice on baby step one of just 1k baby emergency fund. maybe if one is single with no kids, yeah. but with a family i think a 3 month EF, then attack the debt. then build 6 month EF.
 
Do we have anyone like Ramsey in Ireland? I find his show fairly entertaining. It also really opened my eyes to how rich a lot of Americans are. I know it's a bad sample but it seems everyone in Middletown USA working a job that would get you maybe €60/70k in Ireland is on $150k. They also LOVE debt.
 
Do we have anyone like Ramsey in Ireland? I find his show fairly entertaining. It also really opened my eyes to how rich a lot of Americans are. I know it's a bad sample but it seems everyone in Middletown USA working a job that would get you maybe €60/70k in Ireland is on $150k. They also LOVE debt.
I don't think there is anybody like him here. he is very entertaining and has helped a lot of people in USA create an easy to follow plan to tackle debt. it is eye opening to how much debt some people are in over there. student loans, credit cards etc. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. combine it with lesser social welfare/pensions, scary
 
Is it Eoin McGee who has that show on RTE1 "How to be good with money" is the most similar I have seen. I have found his show good.

Do we have anyone like Ramsey in Ireland? I find his show fairly entertaining. It also really opened my eyes to how rich a lot of Americans are. I know it's a bad sample but it seems everyone in Middletown USA working a job that would get you maybe €60/70k in Ireland is on $150k. They also LOVE debt.

I lived in the US and 100% agree with this. It is much easier to accumulate wealth in the US in my opinion, but also why in my opinion there are much more extremes between the haves and have nots.

America has a credit card culture, I earn roughly the same in Ireland as the US but in the US I had 4 credit cards with a combined limit of $250k, vs in Ireland I have one with a limit of 10k. It was a long application process in Ireland vs in the US which was basically just a few clicks and approved based on credit score and salary.

The points system on credit card entices people to use Credit Cards, I basically used my credit card like a debit card and cleared it every month. The points earned paid for flights, hotel rooms etc.
 
the credit card culture there is madness. People get themselves into debt that will take years of sacrifices to clear. as you said, it's to easy to access huge credit there
 
I don't think there is anybody like him here. he is very entertaining and has helped a lot of people in USA create an easy to follow plan to tackle debt. it is eye opening to how much debt some people are in over there. student loans, credit cards etc. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. combine it with lesser social welfare/pensions, scary


Unemployment payments in the USA are typically 50% of former wages, so they are higher than here.

I'm not sure about their State Pension, it is not flat-rated like here. I suspect it is higher than our State Pension.

However, they don't have cash Child Benefit and they don't have JSA = dole.
 
Whilst the logical thing to do is to prioritise the loan that attracts the highest interest rate, potentially there’s merit in killing-off a cheaper loan more quickly if it generates momentum and keeps the person motivated. It depends on the individual.
Potentially lots of things may have merit. But I doubt that there is any evidence that the approach is effective. It's a shame because it would probably be possible to do a decent study on this. 3 cohorts with people with debt who want to pay off debt, each given an hour's free financial advice:

Cohort 1 (control): general financial advice on managing debt
Cohort 2: targeted advice and plan to deal with smallest debt first
Cohort 3: targeted advice and plan to deal with most expensive debt first

Hypothesis that Cohort 2 will have best adherence to plan and lowest / cheapest debt after specified period of time.
 
Was just looking at his website: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/how-the-debt-snowball-method-works

I have emboldened the last sentence in the quote below.

Unless there is evidence for this being correct, this reads like expensive and bad advice, based on cod psychology. Why not just track the amount of money by which your total debt and repayments have reduced by. Surely you'll be "jumping up and down when you see how much you've paid off and how much your repayments have reduced by. That excitement is what’s going to motivate you to keep working hard—all the way to that debt-free finish line."

It's not to say that his advice is ineffective, but I suspect it's less effective than paying off high interest debt first. Unless of course there is good evidence otherwise.

The debt snowball method is a debt-reduction strategy where you pay off debt in order of smallest to largest, gaining momentum as you knock out each remaining balance. When the smallest debt is paid in full, you roll the minimum payment you were making on that debt into the next-smallest debt payment.

Here’s how it works:

Step 1: List your debts from smallest to largest regardless of interest rate.

Step 2: Make minimum payments on all your debts except the smallest.

Step 3: Pay as much as possible on your smallest debt.

Step 4: Repeat until each debt is paid in full.

Now, before you start arguing about the interest rates, hear us out. If your largest debt has the largest interest rate, it’s going to be a long time before you start to see a dent in that crazy balance of yours. But when you stick to the plan (without worrying about interest rates), you’re going to be jumping up and down when you pay off that smallest debt super quick. That excitement is what’s going to motivate you to keep working hard—all the way to that debt-free finish line.
 
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In the US, it’s all about consumption and that being the lead indicator of wealth. As with most things in life, I think there’s a happy medium to be found. Consumption is fun, and if you don’t buy or do stuff, what’s the point. But it should be done on a firm foundation.
 
I've been dipping into the Ramsey Show these past few weeks. It's entertaining and informative but I would be selective about what to take from it, especially in an Irish context. Some of the salaries are eye-watering, but so too are the levels of consumer/student debt that these high earners are carrying.

The 'debt snowball' concept doesn't stack up mathematically but, behaviorally, I see the logic in attacking your lowest debt first (and paying the minimum on the rest), just to create a sense of momentum and help you to stick with the plan.

Their assumptions on investment returns and safe withdrawal rates in retirement (10-12%) are too risky IMO.
 
I've been dipping into the Ramsey Show these past few weeks. It's entertaining and informative but I would be selective about what to take from it, especially in an Irish context. Some of the salaries are eye-watering, but so too are the levels of consumer/student debt that these high earners are carrying.

The 'debt snowball' concept doesn't stack up mathematically but, behaviorally, I see the logic in attacking your lowest debt first (and paying the minimum on the rest), just to create a sense of momentum and help you to stick with the plan.

Their assumptions on investment returns and safe withdrawal rates in retirement (10-12%) are too risky IMO.
Maybe it doesn't stack up behaviourally either. Hard to say without any evidence so without evidence it's expensive bad advice.
 
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