Different equity scheme after 20 yrs for AH in the Docklands?

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statusassign

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I copied this (in italics below) from 'An Irish Town Planner's Blog'.

To date I have heard that there is/was some protracted discussions between the DDA and the Banks resulting in no lenders signing up to offer mortages to those who have been offered apartments in the Docklands.

The date of the article was January 1, 2007 so it is some time ago but I can't seem to come up with info that is more up to date.

I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about this AH equity difference in the Docklands and AH equity elsewhere?


"The launch has been delayed over arguments about how much equity the affordable housing owners should be allowed to retain, should they choose to sell their affordable homes once their mortgages are paid off.

One view being bandied about in the Department of Environment, it is understood, is that after paying off a 20-year mortgage, the owner should keep the entire equity, as with current affordable housing schemes. However, the AHP and the Dublin Docklands Authority would like to see a substantial portion of the equity - perhaps 30-50 per cent - being returned to the Dublin Docklands Authority and "recycled" to provide further affordable housing. "We are not in the business of giving people presents," says O'Connor. "We need to be recycling equity back into the system in order to create further housing."

By the way Starky, if you are reading this, how did the viewing go? Well I hope!
 
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statusassign said:
I copied this (in italics below) from 'An Irish Town Planner's Blog'.

To date I have heard that there is/was some protracted discussions between the DDA and the Banks resulting in no lenders signing up to offer mortages to those who have been offered apartments in the Docklands.

The date of the article was January 1, 2007 so it is some time ago but I can't seem to come up with info that is more up to date.

I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about this AH equity difference in the Docklands and AH equity elsewhere?


"The launch has been delayed over arguments about how much equity the affordable housing owners should be allowed to retain, should they choose to sell their affordable homes once their mortgages are paid off.

One view being bandied about in the Department of Environment, it is understood, is that after paying off a 20-year mortgage, the owner should keep the entire equity, as with current affordable housing schemes. However, the AHP and the Dublin Docklands Authority would like to see a substantial portion of the equity - perhaps 30-50 per cent - being returned to the Dublin Docklands Authority and "recycled" to provide further affordable housing. "We are not in the business of giving people presents," says O'Connor. "We need to be recycling equity back into the system in order to create further housing."

By the way Starky, if you are reading this, how did the viewing go? Well I hope!
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The viewing went well. With out tying to sound ungrateful which of course I am not, the choice that I had was not great, but I picked what I though was the best one for me out of what choices I did have. The main thing that bugged me is that’s its on the 1st floor. Even the second or third would have been great. But I did not have the option. But in general I was fairly happy with the place, its finished to a high standard, and lets face it I would need to be earning a small fortune to buy it on the open market! So I am taking the rough with the smooth and I have always wanted to live in town, and the location is fantastic.

I have heard about this “legal dispute” alright, your post is the first actual indication I have come across over what about. The thing is I have been reading up and following affordable housing threads for the last 2/3 years. I have a good understanding of the process, as far as DCC goes anyway. The problem now that is making me nervous is that this now a new scheme, and apart from the marketing blurb on the news letter I actually know very little about it. What I do know is that it is not exactly the same as the original DCC AH scheme, as to how it differs I am just not sure yet. I can’t find any information on it anywhere.

This is most uncomfortable to read:

“One view being bandied about in the Department of Environment, it is understood, is that after paying off a 20-year mortgage, the owner should keep the entire equity, as with current affordable housing schemes. However, the AHP and the Dublin Docklands Authority would like to see a substantial portion of the equity - perhaps 30-50 per cent - being returned to the Dublin Docklands Authority and "recycled" to provide further affordable housing.”

I can clearly sate right now that if this was the case I would not sign the final contracts. I have no problem with the usual 20 year claw back with the general idea that you get to keep your property after that penalty free. This is almost hinting that this will not be the case. I can not find any information about buying out the property under this new scheme, i.e. paying back the claw back, its almost as if they don’t ever want you to either sell it, or buy them out. Its all very cloak and dagger if you ask me. Eventually they will have to write all this down in the final contracts, so why they have not made the terms and conditions of this scheme public seems a little crazy to me.

Another major concern I have is that there is going to be a massive shortfall in the councils valuation verses the banks valuation. My mortgage adviser told me that one of the apartments down there that was valued at 500K was valued by them at 370K as soon as she told me that I have to admit I did start to panic :-( we are not talking 20 or 30 k out here we are talking 100+. Of course again If this turns out to be the case and the council refuse to budge on the valuation the whole thing could be in jeopardy, as there is no way I would ever agree to a claw back percentage that was so far out. I would advise any one else that is looking at apartments in the docklands to really make sure their valuations are realistic. My valuation has been ordered anyway so once I know what that is then I can try and see what the council are valuing it at and go from there.

I have to say great as the deal seemed at the out set and much as I really like the place, it seems to me that there are going to be nothing but problems with this scheme. I reckon this could drag out for 4/5/6 months or even longer. I would be surprised if I saw keys before june/july. I will keep posting up info on the scheme as and when I find it, there is about 100 apartments tired up between the two blocks, this is quite a number of people who are in exactly the same boat as me.
 
zephyro said:
Myself being another. The latest information I have is that they hope to have the lenders agreed by the end of this week.
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The thing that worries me is what exactly they are all agreeing to! And when are they going to tell us all what exactly we have signed our selves up for in the first place!
 
Hi Starky

Was it longboat you looked at, I'm down there tomorrow to choose, I'm second last on the list for one beds, so I'm a little apprehensive as to what they will offer.

I'm just don't want a ground floor

Cheers
 
Spoke with mortage person today who said that they expect EBS and only! EBS to sign off by the end of the week. They were under the impression that for this phase of the AH in the Docklands the other banks were not going to follow suit but were expected to do so for the next batch.
Regarding the hold-up I was told that the Dubln Docklands want to be put on the deed of the property and have first refusal in the event of a sale, now or in 20 years down the road. The banks had/have a problem because on the deeds it will list in order, the DDA, the bank, in this case EBS then the purchaser. For some reason this made the banks uncomfortable but I was told that it doesn't make much of a difference to us....something to do with resale and first refusal...SO three parties will own the property!

Regarding the equity question they hadn't heard about it so still unclear about that.
Congrats on the apt Sharky. Forbes Quay is a lovely development. I think the whole Docklands area would be a fab place to live so hopefully things work out well for us all and that this equity question is a non-issue, like it is with all the other AH schemes.
 
freshtea said:
Hi Starky

Was it longboat you looked at, I'm down there tomorrow to choose, I'm second last on the list for one beds, so I'm a little apprehensive as to what they will offer.

I'm just don't want a ground floor

Cheers
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I am in Forbes quay, its just next door to Longboat. I reckon I was not exactly at the top of the viewing list myself, but the place I picked was good for me. Good luck with the viewing, I know what you mean about being nervous about what your going to be shown.

I knew that if any of the places I viewed were not suitable then I would have turned down the offer. Which would have meant I was to go back to the drawing board.

My best advise is if the place is not right for you then you should not be afraid to say no. As hard as it is. If you go in with that attitude then you can’t go to wrong. Remember you will have to live there for a very long time so keep that in mind!

Good luck!
 
statusassign said:
Spoke with mortage person today who said that they expect EBS and only! EBS to sign off by the end of the week. They were under the impression that for this phase of the AH in the Docklands the other banks were not going to follow suit but were expected to do so for the next batch. .
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Interesting, I called IIB and they told me the best loan offer they could do was 95% of purchase price. I thought that was a bit odd, They were offering the same rate EBS anyway so there was no real advantage to their offer. It was almost as if they were trying to fob me off.

statusassign said:
Regarding the hold-up I was told that the Dubln Docklands want to be put on the deed of the property and have first refusal in the event of a sale, now or in 20 years down the road. The banks had/have a problem because on the deeds it will list in order, the DDA, the bank, in this case EBS then the purchaser. For some reason this made the banks uncomfortable but I was told that it doesn't make much of a difference to us....something to do with resale and first refusal...SO three parties will own the property! .
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Ok this makes some sense. I was fully aware that DDA wanted to have first refusal in the event of a sale, I was wondering how they were going to achieve this from a legal point of view. Being on the deeds would make sense. So does that mean that they could veto any attempt by us (the purchaser) if we ever wanted to buy out of the deal by paying back the claw back?
I also wonder what extra rights this will give the DDA as a kind of joint owner.
When they do make up there mind on how they are proceeding I will have to get my solicitor to go though various possible future scenarios.

statusassign said:
Regarding the equity question they hadn't heard about it so still unclear about that.
Congrats on the apt Sharky. Forbes Quay is a lovely development. I think the whole Docklands area would be a fab place to live so hopefully things work out well for us all and that this equity question is a non-issue, like it is with all the other AH schemes.
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Thanks, I do like the area, but there are so many questions hanging over all of this, I am not going to get too excited until all the legal issues have been agreed and outlined and I fully understand the possible repercussions of me proceeding with the sale.
 
Hi All
I spoke to a girl in the DDDA a couple of weeks ago and she told me that, when buying a AF home with the DDDA i will be buying 5o% of the apt and the DDDA will be buying the other 50%.
After ten years living in the apt the DDDA will hand over 5% of there share and 5% each year after that. So when you get to 20 years living there the ddda will have handed over all there share in apt.
Hope this makes sense.
Betty
 
Bettyboo123 said:
Hi All
I spoke to a girl in the DDDA a couple of weeks ago and she told me that, when buying a AF home with the DDDA i will be buying 5o% of the apt and the DDDA will be buying the other 50%.
After ten years living in the apt the DDDA will hand over 5% of there share and 5% each year after that. So when you get to 20 years living there the ddda will have handed over all there share in apt.
Hope this makes sense.
Betty
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Well thats the same principle as the the Affordable housing clawback.

I get the impression DDA is new to this game and are refering to Shared Ownership in the wrong context

I have gone down the affordable housing route with SDCC and legally they stated it as, what is called a "charge order" contract between you and them, which separate from the deed.

It stated that they have a financial stake in the property and the clawback terms and conditions. But on the deed it is your property in your name.

I'm not sure if this is what DDA will do, but will wait and see
 
Hi, was wondering if anyone heard whats going on with dda and banks. When are they going to lets us know who are they going to sign up with?
I was told two weeks ago it should be sorted out. Rang EBS today and was told another couple of weeks and should be sorted!! I have viewed my apartment in longboat and doing my snag on tuesday. Just dont know whats going on with banks and dda? when i ring its like nobody can give me straight anwser. it seems this is going to drag on forever!!!
 
gwysocka said:
Hi, was wondering if anyone heard whats going on with dda and banks. When are they going to lets us know who are they going to sign up with?
I was told two weeks ago it should be sorted out. Rang EBS today and was told another couple of weeks and should be sorted!! I have viewed my apartment in longboat and doing my snag on tuesday. Just dont know whats going on with banks and dda? when i ring its like nobody can give me straight anwser. it seems this is going to drag on forever!!!
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God only knows when they will sort it out. I would prepare your self for the worst. I reckon we will be doing well to get keys in may or even june. I asked the estate agent to give me a brutal honest answer about dates to close, and that is more or less what she told me. Remember we are buying the apartments from the council and not a builder. The council is under no real pressure to sell the apartments so in true government style the sales will drag on well into the summer. Makes me laugh,when I got the initial offer letter last november it said "we will hope to close the sale with in 10 weeks of this letter" that was 14 weeks ago! I spent the next few weeks stressing about having to take on a mortgage so soon.I am not complaining however, I dont mind if it takes a while, every month it takes is more money in the bank for stuff for me to put in the place!
I am gearing up for a june completion.
 
As a matter of interet, what is the finish like in these AH DDA apartments. Is it exactly like the normal apartments that are on the market or is it left unfinished/substandard with work left to do for the AH lottery winners?
 
whatsmoney said:
As a matter of interet, what is the finish like in these AH DDA apartments. Is it exactly like the normal apartments that are on the market or is it left unfinished/substandard with work left to do for the AH lottery winners?
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They're to the same standard as any house/apt would be finished. We had fitted kitchen (no appliances) and we had fitted double wardrobes in our bedroom. Only thing missing was appliances and flooring. We even had tiles in bathroom (not on floor) plus tiles in kitchen. Place was painted fully (mind i didnt like the white white) so changed that. But the standard we got was very good.
 
whatsmoney said:
As a matter of interet, what is the finish like in these AH DDA apartments. Is it exactly like the normal apartments that are on the market or is it left unfinished/substandard with work left to do for the AH lottery winners?
Click to expand...

To be fair the fit out of my apartment is excellent.
The kitchen is ready to be used, Tiled floors and walls, finished and all appliances fitted and both bathrooms are finished tiled and ready to go. I will have to just lay floors and I will be ready to move in! I will be doing a snag a week Friday so if there are any major issues I am sure they will present them selves then. Fingers crossed there will not be though.
 
Hello,

I'd be interested if anyone had any updates on this. My girlfriend has picked a lovely 2 bed apt in one of the Docklands schemes, when we went to look at them 2 weeks ago we were told it could be up to 5-6 months before she could move in, today the same person told her it would only be 2-3 months.

It seems as though they don't seem to know what's going on themselves which doesn't fill me with confidence. Also what I'm reading here about a different scheme seems a bit worrying.

Has anyone any updates about moving in dates and this scheme in general?

Thanks in advance
 
blobert said:
Hello,

I'd be interested if anyone had any updates on this. My girlfriend has picked a lovely 2 bed apt in one of the Docklands schemes, when we went to look at them 2 weeks ago we were told it could be up to 5-6 months before she could move in, today the same person told her it would only be 2-3 months.

It seems as though they don't seem to know what's going on themselves which doesn't fill me with confidence. Also what I'm reading here about a different scheme seems a bit worrying.

Has anyone any updates about moving in dates and this scheme in general?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...


No one really knows at the moment. That’s the problem. No one is even sure what the problem is. I was on to IIB and they seemed to be under the impression that they were the only bank that were lending for the current docklands scheme. Funny thing is that’s what EBS said to me. Statusassign’s post above in relation to the title deeds, seems to be the most plausible reason for the delay that I have heard so far. None of the banks will give me a straight answer anyway so its all guess work as to the delay. All we can do is wait. :) I have already been waiting since November as it is! I find out anything I will post it though.

Out of interest Who told you about the moving in 5-6 / 2-3 months by the way?
 
Starky said:
Out of interest Who told you about the moving in 5-6 / 2-3 months by the way?
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It was the lady from Dublin Docklands that was showing us the place, can't remeber her name offhand.

Hopefully it will be EBS handling the mortgages as several of the other banks did not approve her, while they did.

Thanks for the help, any further advice would be much appreciated.

It's amazing how long all this stuff drags on, the draw was delayed by months, now this part is set to drag on indefinitely.
 
blobert said:
It was the lady from Dublin Docklands that was showing us the place, can't remeber her name offhand.

Hopefully it will be EBS handling the mortgages as several of the other banks did not approve her, while they did.

Thanks for the help, any further advice would be much appreciated.

It's amazing how long all this stuff drags on, the draw was delayed by months, now this part is set to drag on indefinitely.
Click to expand...

She was the one who kept telling me that I would be viewing my apartment in with in the next two weeks. Every time I called her. It took 12 weeks before I got to view it, so I don’t really believe anything that they say to be honest. The estate agents told me that the sale may close some time in June, so I reckon anytime after that is when the sales might close.
 
Hi all..

anyone had any news about the mortages for the Docklands. I phoned once but got no info on when they will agree on the paperwork. Just that it is pending! still!
 
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