Delays in rolling out vaccine

EmmDee said:
I don't always agree with the Gentleman but I believe a Canadian study has shown a 2% chance of Covid patients developing blood clots. So there is an increased risk.
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There are a few studies that show some increased risk, mostly associated with those who have severe symptoms requiring intensive intervention, which itself is associated with an increased clotting risk. However, no one in the scientific community has claimed there is a 'greatly increased' risk.

EmmDee said:
So I have no problem with a brief pause, I have no problem with continuing with the vaccine even if it is shown to have an additional risk (which can be managed) but I do think the vaccine brings benefits even if there is a potential side effect
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I agree, I think showing concern and an openness to accept potential issues is an important factor in maintaining public trust in vaccination at a time we really need the public to be on board. A few days pause will not impact our timelines as supply is the far outweighing constraint.
 
Leo said:
There are a few studies that show some increased risk, mostly associated with those who have severe symptoms requiring intensive intervention, which itself is associated with an increased clotting risk.
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Hence if a vaccine prevents death or hospitalisation the risks of clotting are greatly reduced.
I'm glad we got there eventually.
 
Wahaay said:
There is endless amounts of evidence showing the associated risk of clotting with Covid if you could be bothered to do your own research.
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Again, that fails to prove your claim, and does not in any way address the incidence of clotting in the general public.
 
Wahaay said:
Hence if a vaccine prevents death or hospitalisation the risks of clotting are greatly reduced.
I'm glad we got there eventually.
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The rates of hospitalisation with Covid are very low, and the numbers requiring intensive treatment are a smaller proportion of those again, the numbers of those developing clots are yet again a smaller number.

Do you understand that a small change in risk to a small percentage of a small percentage does not add up to a 'greatly increased' risk?
 
The Germans have released more details

"The affected individuals had ages ranging from about 20 to 50 years
(...)
The number of these cases after vaccination with COVID-19 AstraZeneca is statistically significantly higher than the number of cerebral venous thromboses that normally occur in the unvaccinated population. For this purpose, an observed-versus-expected analysis was performed, comparing the number of cases expected without vaccination in a 14-day time window with the number of cases reported after approximately 1.6 million AstraZeneca vaccinations in Germany. About one case would have been expected, and seven cases had been reported
(...)
In addition to the experts from the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, other experts in thrombosis, haematology, and an adenovirus specialist were consulted with the details of the reported cases. All experts agreed unanimously that a pattern could be discerned here and that a connection between the reported above-mentioned diseases and the vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca was not implausible."

One more of the persons affected died now. Three deaths now out of the seven cases.
 
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Leo said:
The rates of hospitalisation with Covid are very low.
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I know you're a moderator and all that but if you seriously think the rates of hospital admissions for Covid over the last year across the globe have been very low you're totally delusional.
I mean seriously what planet have you been living on ?
I can't believe anyone with an ounce of intelligence seriously believes that.
 
Perhaps you can refrain from insults? As a percentage hospitalisation is low. That is a fact.
 
Merowig said:
Perhaps you can refrain from insults? As a percentage hospitalisation is low. That is a fact.
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What insults ?
Anyone who thinks hospitalisation from Covid in the last year has been very low is totally and utterly delusionsal.
At the worst times our hospitals have been close to being overwhelmed by Covid.
ICU's have been at maximum capacity and tens of thousands of surgical procedures have been cancelled because of this.
This is tinfoil hat territory.
 
Ireland’s hospitals were overwhelmed before Covid. It is a constant state.

Procedures were cancelled as a precaution and many hospitals then were not working at capacity at all. The deal Ireland did with the private hospitals was not worth the money and was not extended. Private hospitals in Germany got into financial troubles and feared bankruptcies as they were under-utilised and had to cancel operations in order to prepare for Covid.
 
Merowig said:
Ireland’s hospitals were overwhelmed before Covid. It is a constant state.

Procedures were cancelled as a precaution and many hospitals then were not working at capacity at all. The deal Ireland did with the private hospitals was not worth the money and was not extended. Private hospitals in Germany got into financial troubles and feared bankruptcies as they were under-utilised and had to cancel operations in order to prepare for Covid.
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There are around 280 ICU beds in hospitals around Ireland.
On the 24th January at the height of the latest wave of the pandemic 221 of those were occupied by people critically ill with Covid 19.
To say the rate of hospitalisation with Covid has been very low is total nonsense.
 
An article from the Irish Times and a piece from the BBC explaining rather more elegantly than me the problems of postponing the AZ jab on such flimsy medical evidence even for just a week.


www.irishtimes.com

Michael McDowell: Is vaccine suspension misguided insurance against blame?

Decision blunder made by opaque bodies passing for State’s public health expertise
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

The UK, meanwhile, has vaccinated 820,000 people with both the AZ and Pfizer jabs since Ireland joined other EU countries in postponing its AZ rollout.
That's 200,000 more people jabbed in two days than Ireland's entire vaccination programme.
There have been no reports of a single serious side effect amongst any of them.
 
Wahaay said:
The UK, meanwhile, has vaccinated 820,000 people with both the AZ and Pfizer jabs since Ireland joined other EU countries in postponing its AZ rollout.
That's 200,000 more people jabbed in two days than Ireland's entire vaccination programme.
There have been no reports of a single serious side effect amongst any of them.
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There is a reason for that , the UK only gather information from their "Yellow Card" system weekly and report monthly.
For example the report up to 28th of February was published on the 11th of March.

Additionally anyone can access this system.
 
Wahaay said:
To say the rate of hospitalisation with Covid has been very low is total nonsense.
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Now you seem to be confused.

Do you know what the hospitalisation rate actually is for Covid in Ireland? To help you with your Google search, it's not an absolute number in ICU at a point in time that I'm looking for here.

And yes, the information is readily available, and supports the assertion made by @Leo and @Merowig
 
Wahaay said:
I know you're a moderator and all that but if you seriously think the rates of hospital admissions for Covid over the last year across the globe have been very low you're totally delusional.
I mean seriously what planet have you been living on ?
I can't believe anyone with an ounce of intelligence seriously believes that.
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You seem to be confusing rate with actual numbers. I think you should stop ranting and think before questioning anyone else's intelligence!
 
Good for the UK. They had one of the biggest death rates in the world so good to see them get their act together. We all have family and friends in the UK so doubt there is a single person here that would begrudge them the progress they are making.

However, why do they care if Ireland or any other country has paused the AZ vaccine? Its not an insult to the British people despite what the English media portray it as. The Americans haven't even approved the vaccine yet and that doesn't seem to bother the European obsessed British media.

This nationalistic narrative that is creeping in about vaccines is just tiresome. Nobody is going to defend the EU's performance as exemplary on this but why do the UK care? Let them do their own thing. We have a situation where the UK and the US are exporting zero vaccine shots and even if the UK don't have a explicit export ban, they are not sharing production capacity. The EU on the other hand are exporting millions of doses every month including over 9m doses to the UK yet all we get out of the English media is constant talk about Glorious Britain and rubbish about European overloards.
 
Sunny said:
Good for the UK. They had one of the biggest death rates in the world so good to see them get their act together. We all have family and friends in the UK so doubt there is a single person here that would begrudge them the progress they are making.

However, why do they care if Ireland or any other country has paused the AZ vaccine? Its not an insult to the British people despite what the English media portray it as. The Americans haven't even approved the vaccine yet and that doesn't seem to bother the European obsessed British media.

This nationalistic narrative that is creeping in about vaccines is just tiresome. Nobody is going to defend the EU's performance as exemplary on this but why do the UK care? Let them do their own thing. We have a situation where the UK and the US are exporting zero vaccine shots and even if the UK don't have a explicit export ban, they are not sharing production capacity. The EU on the other hand are exporting millions of doses every month including over 9m doses to the UK yet all we get out of the English media is constant talk about Glorious Britain and rubbish about European overloards.
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So, no mention of the Michael McDowell article or the substance of what both pieces are saying about the AZ vaccine postponment ?
Just another anti-Brit rant.
It always comes down to Anglophobia eventually.
The EU is not " exporting " millions of vaccines.
Multi-national companies with production facilities in a number of countries inside and out of the EU are meeting their legally-binding contractual obligations to deliver vaccines.
The EU doesn't export BMWs.
BMW exports BMWs.
 
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Wahaay said:
So, no mention of the Michael McDowell article or the substance of what both pieces are saying about the AZ vaccine postponment ?
Just another anti-Brit rant.
It always comes down to Anglophobia eventually.
The EU is not " exporting " millions of vaccines.
Multi-national companies with production facilities in a number of countries inside and out of the EU are meeting their legally-binding contractual obligations to deliver vaccines.
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Anti brit rant? I suggest you take a break. You are just coming across as pretty pathetic.

By the way, we stopped listening to Michael McDowell years ago...
 
Wahaay said:
So, no mention of the Michael McDowell article or the substance of what both pieces are saying about the AZ vaccine postponment ?
Just another anti-Brit rant.
It always comes down to Anglophobia eventually.
The EU is not " exporting " millions of vaccines.
Multi-national companies with production facilities in a number of countries inside and out of the EU are meeting their legally-binding contractual obligations to deliver vaccines.
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You should read it again its very complimentary of the UKs rollout.
 
Sunny said:
Anti brit rant? I suggest you take a break. You are just coming across as pretty pathetic.

By the way, we stopped listening to Michael McDowell years ago...
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Who is we ?
There are quite a number of below-the-line comments from people - far more than on here - who have read and agreed with his sentiments.
Perhaps you should read them as well when you get round to reading the article.
The problem with existing in an echo chamber is that you only hear voices you agree with or like your comments ...
 
This is my last contribution to this before I go burn some English flags and tell my English wife and in laws how much I hate them.

I have no issue with any aspect of the UK rollout. They devised a strategy and negotiated what appears to be very beneficial contractual terms. However, you cannot deny that they have obviously made it mandatory for AZ to use British production capacity for the British Market. The US look like they have done the same. Thats their perogative.

As much as there is to criticise the EU about with this rollout and there is alot, I have no issue with them not going down t the same road and getting contracts tieing down European production to meet European demand. This is a global pandemic. It won't be beaten through vaccine protectionism. The EU were obviously very gullible when negotiating with AZ and did not do enough due diligence on production capacity. That was a huge failing.

I have no time for the political rubbish coming out of Paris, Berlin, Brussels or London with everyone trying to score political points after Brexit. People are dying every single day. I have no desire to see someone in London get sick and die than I do see someone in Dublin or Milan get sick or die.

I could not care less who is winning the race. I want everyone in every country to be vaccinated as soon and as safely as possibly so we can get back to living our lives with some sense of normality.
 
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