Delays in rolling out vaccine

[joe sod]

I never said it is an export ban. I said it is a de facto export ban. If the EU had signed the same contracts with suppliers as the UK did,

That gets to the heart of the matter why didn't the EU do that ?, it was hardly because of money 350 million is small change to the EU especially as it has its own currency the euro. Were the people at the heart of this "completely inept" or was it because of "identity politics", the EU did not want to be seen to be looking for exclusivity above less developed countries. If that is the case then Boris Johnson will put the UK first, Donald Trump put the US first (it was Trump administration that negotiated the US contracts) but the EU does not put Europe first !!

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

That gets to the heart of the matter why didn't the EU do that , it was hardly because of money 350 million is small change to the EU especially as it has its own currency the euro. Were the people at the heart of this "completely inept" or was it because of "identity politics", the EU did not want to be seen to be looking for exclusivity above less developed countries. If that is the case then Boris Johnson will put the UK first, Donald Trump put the US first (it was Trump administration that negotiated the US contracts) but the EU does not put Europe first !!

Read the Article Joe, it explains the differences in law , I mean how could the EU negotiate under British law?

 

[odyssey06]

Read the Article Joe, it explains the differences in law , I mean how could the EU negotiate under British law?

Would Irish contract law be more like UK law I wonder... will this issue trip up EU contracts beyond vaccines. UK contracts seem stronger for buyers.

And in this specific instance they were negotiating with a company based in UK. Maybe on that basis UK law could have been used.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Would Irish contract law be more like UK law I wonder... will this issue trip up EU contracts beyond vaccines. UK contracts seem stronger for buyers.

And in this specific instance they were negotiating with a company based in UK. Maybe on that basis UK law could have been used.

I don't think you can do that the contract is usually enforceable in the " country " where the buyer resides/is. I dunno

Irish law does mirror UK laws in huge areas but we also have EU law on our statutory books so really dunno.

 

[Sunny]

But Sunny there aren't any production problems really, the 4 EU based plants that belong to AZ are producing as there hasn't been any supply issues to the UK , and of course those EU based plants are exporting to other countries eg Australia.

The only supply issue now for the UK and by extension the EU is India. I mean the EU are getting AZ vaccines from India when in reality the European plants could supply the EU and the UK could be supplied with excess and all the production that she has, there apparently is another plant in the UK that was meant to be operating now but there is no news on that ?

For all the money AZ received, and that includes $1bn from the US administration they seem to be one country centric at the moment.

You can see the EUs frustration.....

I can see the EU's frustration but from the outside it looks like they negotiated based on goodwill and without due diligence. The European plants are producing but they are not producing the expected yields. Or at least one plant in Belgium isn't which is where the initial production shortfall is. The difference is that the EU can't access the vaccines produced in the UK and the UK seem to have a contractual right to vaccines produced in the EU if there are shortfalls with UK production.

So I can understand the frustration of the EU when they are forced to use the term export bans when unlike the UK, they are exporting huge amounts of raw materials and finished vaccines to the UK and the rest of the world and they feel like other Countries aren't living up to the same standards.

The US is a disgrace. Sitting on millions of doses that are not even approved?? They lend 5m doses to Mexico and Canada but why not lend out the entire 30m now. We could take those 30m doses and vaccinate today. The US can get the doses back out of the future deliveries promised to the EU.

Everyone worked together to develop vaccines but national interests seem to be taking over. God help poorer countries if it turns out we all need to be getting vaccinated every year.

On the contracts issue, what law the contract is enforceable under is simply a contract clause. Two foreign companies can still use English law in their contracts as long as they define a process agent in the UK who will accept being served on their behalf in the event of a dispute. Most large contracts across jurisdictions are performed under English law.

 

[joe sod]

The US is a disgrace. Sitting on millions of doses that are not even approved?? They lend 5m doses to Mexico and Canada but why not lend out the entire 30m now. We could take those 30m doses and vaccinate today. The US can get the doses back out of the future deliveries promised to the EU.

exactly I cannot understand why a bigger issue is not being made of this, Joe Biden is completely reneging on his inauguration speech

 

[Merowig]

I assume the US tries to ramp up distribution first and do not want to risk any future shortfall in AstraZenecas output.
It is their right to hoard as many vaccines they want too. They are not responsible for the incompetence in the EU or elsewhere.

 

[odyssey06]

exactly I cannot understand why a bigger issue is not being made of this, Joe Biden is completely reneging on his inauguration speech

At least the UK are using the AZ doses... and given our close proximity we at least get some indirect benefit from that in terms of reduced transmission.

 

[tomdublin]

The US has 30 million doses of AZ they are sitting on as AZ goes through approval there.
Another 20 million is nearly ready.
The US has ok'd the release of 5 million of these to neighbouring countries.

At last week's shamrock summit Ireland could have asked to borrow some of those AZ vaccines from the US but of course it didn't. Just too much hassle..

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

At last week's shamrock summit Ireland could have asked to borrow some of those AZ vaccines from the US but of course it didn't. Just too much hassle..

Well that's incorrect, MM made enquiries the week before and the US told him / his department that the US didn't have any to give.
If they did "loan " say a million doses how long would it take to return that given we are at present only getting a minimum amount from AZ.
Every year our governments are publicly derided when they travel to countries to talk up Ireland , while this year the physical aspect was halted people are still unhappy.
Another thing what would the EU have viewed this?

 

[EasilyAmused]

At last week's shamrock summit Ireland could have asked to borrow some of those AZ vaccines from the US but of course it didn't. Just too much hassle..

The U.S.A. has a Covid-19 vaccine export ban.

 

[odyssey06]

The U.S.A. has a Covid-19 vaccine export ban.

Yes but they 'loaned' 5 million doses out to Canada and Mexico to be replenished from those countries future supply.
Obviously it makes more sense to loan them to next door countries.
The suggestion was that Ireland should seek some amount on same basis, based on what we're expecting from AZ.

 

[joe sod]

"Another thing what would the EU have viewed this "

Yes you have nailed it, that is the main reason he did not ask Joe Biden for vaccines, he did not want to embarrass the EU. But that proves that politics trumps the corona virus all throughout the pandemic. I also think Joe Biden did not want Martin to draw attention to the issue of the US hoarding vaccines.

 

[joe sod]

The U.S.A. has a Covid-19 vaccine export ban.

Oh and that's ok is it, we are not supposed to mention it then just accept it as a fait accompli

 

[tomdublin]

Yes you have nailed it, that is the main reason he did not ask Joe Biden for vaccines, he did not want to embarrass the EU

Several EU states are currently looking for additional supplies so the EU's embarrassment would have been limited. It's more that the government seems quite comfortable with the current situation. The slow trickle of vaccine arrivals doesn't drag the HSE out of its comfort zone while the government can blame it all on AZ and the EU.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

"Another thing what would the EU have viewed this "

Yes you have nailed it, that is the main reason he did not ask Joe Biden for vaccines, he did not want to embarrass the EU. But that proves that politics trumps the corona virus all throughout the pandemic. I also think Joe Biden did not want Martin to draw attention to the issue of the US hoarding vaccines.

Ah here Joe this is just fantasy. The US aren't hoarding vaccines AZ are producing vaccines in order to fulfil its contract and prior to approval by the FDA.
This is exactly the same as Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Moderna did at the end of last year.
I'll repeat..... AZ took $1bn to ramp up its operations and provide vaccines to the US its that simple, no embarrassment no political manoeuvring just simple contracts and the US creating surety of supply for its 350m plus citizens.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Several EU states are currently looking for additional supplies so the EU's embarrassment would have been limited. It's more that the government seems quite comfortable with the current situation. The slow trickle of vaccine arrivals doesn't drag the HSE out of its comfort zone while the government can blame it all on AZ and the EU.

And yet upto 14th of March the HSE received 754000 doses and administered 617000 or 82% . Is that staying within its "comfort zone "?
Why would you suggest that the Government and the HSE are satisfied with this, given that they have repeatedly aired their collective frustration with AZ in particular.

 

[Sunny]

The US have done what the UK have done. Despite being large producers and suppliers to the world for pharmaceutical products, they have designed contracts that prevent the exporting of vaccines unless the US supply has been met. Meanwhile the EU despite only receiving a fraction of promised vaccines has exported over 40m vaccines outside the EU including over 10m vaccines to the UK and over 1m doses to the US. This is more than likely going to impact the supply of Johnson and Johnson vaccine to the EU as they won't be able to use US supply lines. If the EU had done what the US and the UK had done with those contracts, most of the rest of the world would be waiting a very long time for a any vaccine.

The US are sitting on stockpiles of millions of doses that they haven't even approved. They have been sitting on those doses for weeks. They could have lent those 30m doses and got them into peoples arms weeks ago if they were so inclined. All it needed was cooperation. EU countries are also sitting on millions of unused vaccines so maybe it is time for the EU to start getting their own act together as well. Developing vaccines in such a short space of time was a huge success and an example of what can be achieved but the vaccine roll out is beginning to bring out the worst in humanity again.

 

[odyssey06]

And yet upto 14th of March the HSE received 754000 doses and administered 617000 or 82% . Is that staying within its "comfort zone "?
Why would you suggest that the Government and the HSE are satisfied with this, given that they have repeatedly aired their collective frustration with AZ in particular.

Denmark took up options on Pfizer doses other EU countries declined.
I think questions have to be asked why we didn't look into that.

 

[tomdublin]

People who know quite a lot about this seem to agree that the HSE would struggle to keep up with a significant increase in vaccine arrivals. The promised IT system isn't functional, the vaccinator recruitment programme has almost collapsed amidst its bureaucratic morass, pharmacies designated as "community vaccination centres" haven't been told yet, no plans yet for reaching those who don't have a GP, etc. etc. Promises that one million people per month will be vaccinated are not credible.