Clare county council & proof of household charge

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Agh... This government has no back bone at all... to not be able to collect a charge that is due. Yet at the same time people wonder why we didn't have the strenght to tell Europe no to the bank bailout.
 
"The Student Support Act 2011 does not provide for withholding of the payment of a student grant on foot of non-payment of the household charge."

The SSA 2011 always does not state that bananas have to be yellow but that doesn't make it so. The fact that the act does not provide for it does not matter, it does not specifically exclude any link between the two, it is totally silent on the household charge.

I think if you're looking to get money from the State, then you should pay the taxes that the State requires you to pay.
 
dereko1969 said:
The SSA 2011 always does not state that bananas have to be yellow but that doesn't make it so. The fact that the act does not provide for it does not matter, it does not specifically exclude any link between the two, it is totally silent on the household charge.
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Ah now, thats starting to sound suspiciously spin doctory - is that you Phil?

dereko1969 said:
I think if you're looking to get money from the State, then you should pay the taxes that the State requires you to pay.
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I agree, which is why its unfair to penalise students on the actions of their parents :rolleyes:

Irrelevant now anyway, Clare CC have admitted they were wrong.
 
truthseeker said:
Ah now, thats starting to sound suspiciously spin doctory - is that you Phil?



I agree, which is why its unfair to penalise students on the actions of their parents :rolleyes:

Irrelevant now anyway, Clare CC have admitted they were wrong.
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No, not Phil. The students aren't being penalised, their parents who are paying for them are and other taxpayers are being penalised by people who didn't bother paying the household charge.

My point wasn't spin-doctory it was contradicting your quote from the Journal which implied that because the Act didn't allow for any link between the grant and the household charge that ipso facto they couldn't make payment of the grant conditional on payment of the household charge which is blatantly untrue.

I think Clare did the right thing initially and have now made the wrong decision.
 
dereko1969 said:
My point wasn't spin-doctory it was contradicting your quote from the Journal which implied that because the Act didn't allow for any link between the grant and the household charge that ipso facto they couldn't make payment of the grant conditional on payment of the household charge which is blatantly untrue.
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It was actually The Department of Education who made the statement that the Act didnt allow for grants to be conditional on payment of the HC.

dereko1969 said:
I think Clare did the right thing initially and have now made the wrong decision.
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If by right thing you mean unlawful thing and by wrong decision you mean abiding by legislation - then yeah :D
 
All it would have taken was for 1 student to take judicial review proceedings.
 
It the same people who pay for nearly everything in this country.Then there are those who pay for nothing and claim every government help available. I'm with Clare County Council and hope other county councils will follow suit and fast.
 
Leper said:
It the same people who pay for nearly everything in this country.Then there are those who pay for nothing and claim every government help available. I'm with Clare County Council and hope other county councils will follow suit and fast.
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i think you should read post 50 by 'truthseeker'
 
MrMan said:
€2500 to cover weekends away, nights out,
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Well poor students, how about not having nights out or weekends away, as many students who don't get grants have to do.

I can remember when the grants arrived to students accounts, generally late, well plenty of the students were well able to spend said grant in the bar for about a week or two. In every 3rd level city or town in Ireland the spending in the pubs goes up massiviely when the grants come in. I actually know people who spent the whole grant in that short period of time. It was obvious to me that many who got it were managing the system, or rather their parents were.

In relation to Clare co. co. What a brillant idea. And it would be a great idea that anyone who receives state money should show they are tax compliant and have all other state bills paid before they receive any taxpayers money. This developement has made me feel a lot happier as I've paid it.
 
Nope not bad news, now they've got the idea, no doubt it will come to pass in some government legislations. They're getting very creative on penalties, which are working and no doubt this Co. Clare innitiative will have made a few more people pay, or start to think about it, and discuss it in the pubs this weekend.
 
Bronte said:
Well poor students, how about not having nights out or weekends away, as many students who don't get grants have to do.

I can remember when the grants arrived to students accounts, generally late, well plenty of the students were well able to spend said grant in the bar for about a week or two. In every 3rd level city or town in Ireland the spending in the pubs goes up massiviely when the grants come in. I actually know people who spent the whole grant in that short period of time. It was obvious to me that many who got it were managing the system, or rather their parents were.

In relation to Clare co. co. What a brillant idea. And it would be a great idea that anyone who receives state money should show they are tax compliant and have all other state bills paid before they receive any taxpayers money. This developement has made me feel a lot happier as I've paid it.
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I was making the point that €2500 wasn't some luxury for students to have weekends away and nights out, they also had other costs, such as accommodation, ot travel. books etc. When you break it down to €69 per week you would do well to enjoy the live that some are suggesting is the norm for grant receivers.
 
Bronte said:
Nope not bad news, now they've got the idea, no doubt it will come to pass in some government legislations. They're getting very creative on penalties, which are working and no doubt this Co. Clare innitiative will have made a few more people pay, or start to think about it, and discuss it in the pubs this weekend.
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Im totally shocked that anyone with any degree of intelligence thinks that its a good idea to endorse a method of bullying and extortion to get a paltry sum of taxes from someone. There is a good reason that we have due process. It is to prevent the types of situations that exist in corrupt countries where men with guns in government offices arbitrarily insist that an individual has to hand over a sum of money, his watch, his boots or whatever else in order to get his passport stamped, his application for something approved etc...

Agreeing that a local county council can arbitrarily decide to change the established rules of entitlement to a grant cheque is a step backwards in democracy. Its irrelevant whether or not you a agree with the HC, there is a bigger picture.
 
I don't know what's with all the vitriol I didn't introduce this tax. The Irish people voted in FF and let the good times role with no thought as to tomorrow, now FG/Lab have to sort out the mess and Ireland is spending more than it earns so this 100 Euro is nothing as to what is coming. If cuts are not allowed to be made to spending then taxpayers will be forced to pay more. It's inevitable.

Truthseeker, whatever about Clare Co. Co. now Revenue are going to be in charge of it and they are far nastier.

Just for the record I don't think anyone who cannot afford it should have to pay it. People that I personally know who haven't paid the charge can afford it and it's me who has paid it who has now got 2 reminders with apparently a 3rd one on the way.. Naturally I got the reminder because I'm on the NPPR lists because I paid that too.

And I don't see why people who get money from taxpayers shouldn't have to be tax complaint. That only benefits all of society. In Sweden tax returns are public documents and why not.

Negative equity is only a red herring and has nothing to do with ability to pay.
 
Bronte said:
Truthseeker, whatever about Clare Co. Co. now Revenue are going to be in charge of it and they are far nastier.
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Its not about being nasty, its about acting within the rules set out in legislation. Acting lawfully.

Bronte said:
And I don't see why people who get money from taxpayers shouldn't have to be tax complaint.
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Either do I. There are a number of different issues clouding the discussion. But setting aside any personal feelings about the HC, it is unethical and unlawful to suddenly change the rules regarding entitlement to grants - which is what Clare CC did. We have due process and seperation of powers and these are good things and in place for a reason. While it may a good idea to have to produce evidence of tax compliance to qualify for some kind of state payment, it cannot just be ham fistedly implemented in an unlawful manner, which is what they tried (and thankfully failed because it would set a horribly undemocratic precedent) to do.
 
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