Chartered Accountants & CPA Merger

cork said:
I hope CPA Ireland will bring their ethos and high standards over to the CAI
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Not interested. Just want:
1 lower annual fees
2 no threats of removal CA designation for bot paying fee
3. More transparency re icai finances, more scrutiny of this. Media should ve looking at tbis. Hopefully cpa can facilitate this.
 
ArthurMcB said:
Not interested. Just want:
1 lower annual fees
2 no threats of removal CA designation for bot paying fee
3. More transparency re icai finances, more scrutiny of this. Media should ve looking at tbis. Hopefully cpa can facilitate this.
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I completely agree.
The merger has now to deliver for members.(including subscriptions).
There also has to be much better engagement with members.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
A superb basis for amalgamating…

I should sell my house and move in with a family down the road.

Imagine the savings we could all make!

The red line issue here is allowing CPAs to use the ACA/FCA designation. They haven’t earned it and they don’t deserve it. Whoever negotiated this ‘deal’ should be taken to to the roof of the white elephant that is Chartered Accountants House and thrown off it.
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ArthurMcB said:
Not interested. Just want:
1 lower annual fees
2 no threats of removal CA designation for bot paying fee
3. More transparency re icai finances, more scrutiny of this. Media should ve looking at tbis. Hopefully cpa can facilitate this.
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do you seriously believe that you should be allowed continuing membership of any organisation while refusing to pay the membership sub?
 
dandoo said:
do you seriously believe that you should be allowed continuing membership of any organisation while refusing to pay the membership sub?
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No but i do expect to be able to keep my hard eaned CA designation. I dont care much about being a 'member' of icai. Makes no odds to me.
 
Hi Arthur

If you are no longer a member, I don't think you can use the designatory letters ACA or FCA

Brendan Burgess XFCA
 
ArthurMcB said:
No but i do expect to be able to keep my hard eaned CA designation. I dont care much about being a 'member' of icai. Makes no odds to me.
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For QFAs, they get a diploma in financial advice which allows them to use the QFA designation as long as they pay their dues and complete CPD. If they don't, they still have their diploma.

For ACA, the certificate you get at conferring is just a membership certificate. That membership ends when you stop paying. Seems bad that you get less for passing a lot of difficult exams than for 5 multiple choice papers and a case study.
 
dandoo said:
I’m not a member of either organisation but have some understanding of both.

One thing that will be welcomed by CPAs in all this is that they will now be governed by the CAI CPD requirements. As the CAI requirements are far less onerous than those of CPA they will be delighted with the lower bar.
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im not convinced that they are to be honest.
 
I saw the post below on Linkedin.

CAI members who voted in favour of the amalgamation was by a small majority and significant minority against.

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This was posted by paul lynch fca
I’m not sure what to make of all this. Maybe my thinking is ‘glass half empty’ but the fact is that the vast majority of CAs, by a ratio of more than 2:1, effectively abstained on this matter. Of those that voted really quite a small majority were in favour with a significant minority against. It might be worth some of Council’s time as they move forward considering and maybe looking into the fact that their unanimity on the issue wasn’t reflected in the views of members.
 
Yes i understand that if i stop paying then i stop being a member and consequently stop being allowed to claim my hard eanred qualification. I get it. It still frustrates me a bit though especially as the fees are so extortionate and the Institue so wasteful with resources. Thats my point.
 
There is lots of noise within this thread. The jaundiced view that many people have about the CPA qualification stems from the fact that CAI don’t recognise it academically. There’s a sense that people who aren’t at the standard required to be a chartered accountant are being snuck in the back door to bail out CAI.
 
Folks, I was asked to reopen this thread as there is some vote coming up soon in the CAI.

I have edited the thread to remove a lot of the personally abusive stuff.

Could you please try to keep it on track. Argue your points and disagree with each other with professional respect.
 
So is this a vote to get the wording right as was suggested above, or could it be reversed?

I believe the CPAs voted overwhelmingly in favour, CAI was close and a small turnout.

I saw this in the paper

High Court asked to approve amalgamation of two accountancy bodies

www.irishtimes.com

High Court asked to approve amalgamation of two accountancy bodies

Members of Certified Public Accountant of Ireland and Chartered Accountants Ireland have approved move
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
Any ACAs looking at attending the AGM or even voting on this?

I think the institute have been very quiet on this one so I’m thinking it must be a formality
 
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CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS’ AGM ON FRIDAY 17 MAY AT 2:30 PM TO VOTE ON THE AMENDMENTS TO THE BYE-LAWS RESOLUTIONS 2 and 3 TO GIVE EFFECT TO THE MERGER BETWEEN THE CAI AND CPA. THE ONLINE VOTING ON THE MERGER CLOSES ON FRIDAY 10 MAY AT 2:30 PM WHICH IS ACCESSED ON THE EMAIL SENT TO THE CAI MEMBERS ON 24 APRIL.





1 The CAI has approximately 32,899 members worldwide, there are 22,.674 members in Ireland with 6,929 in practice and 12,772 in Business. The CPA have 4,772 members worldwide with 4,025 in Ireland with 1,158 in practice and 2,072 in Business. The CAI has the largest membership of accountants in Ireland with a 51% share and they don’t need to merge with a much smaller group of 4,025 members in Ireland.





2. The CPA offices at 17 Harcourt Street, Dublin 2 may not sell for some time as there are a lot of offices in that area for sale and there will be a substantial loss on the sale and the CAI members will have to fund around €3 million of the loss as there is around €4 million of a Bank loan on the offices. The CPA have incurred losses in their most recently published financial statements. If the merger goes ahead it will cost CAI members dearly as there could be serious liabilities that they could be taking on and the staff in the CPA will have to be made redundant or employed by the CAI adding to the very large staff numbers already in the CAI.





3.The CPA members can use both CPA and ACA and they can use both FCPA and FCA which isn’t acceptable to the CAI members as it appears that CPA/FCPA have more qualifications than the CAI members.





4. The CPA have 263 audit practice firms in Ireland with the CAI having 467 audit practice firms so there will be a lot of competition among small and medium sized practice firms for audits trading as Chartered Accountants audit practice firms. There are 1,947 CAI practice firms in Ireland and there are 613 CPA practice firms in Ireland which will lead be intense competition for clients as CPA firms can trade as Chartered Accountant firms if the merger proceeds.







5. The ICAEW refused to merge with any other groups of accountants, it has 166,000 members for a population of over 60 million people, if the CAI merger proceeds with the CPA there will be around 38,000 members for a 7 million population which is far too many CAI members for a small population of 7 million people





6. All members received an email on 24 April headed AGM 2024 with no mention of voting to give effect to the CAI and CPA merger which is not acceptable and it sets out the details of the AGM on 17 May and the details of the voting and there are nine resolutions to vote on, and please vote against Resolution 2 and 3 so as the Principal Bye- Laws and Disciplinary Bye-Laws cannot be amended to give effect to the merger of the CAI and the closing date for voting is 10 MAY 2:30PM





7. All the above data can be got from the IAASA Profile of Accountants for 2023 that was issued on 24 April, you can check out the IAASA website on iaasa.ie



8. It is clear from the above that if the CAI members vote to amend the BYE-LAWS and the DISCIPLINARY BYE-LAWS to give effect to the merger the CAI members will be like turkeys voting for Christmas
 
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