Central Bank still pretending mortgage rates for new business are lower than they actually are.

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
52,175
They have published their Interest Rates report today

[broken link removed]


The rate on new floating rate loan agreements[1] for house purchase (which includes renegotiations) was 3.08 per cent at end-April 2016, representing a decrease of 8 basis points over the month. The equivalent euro rate was 1.86 per cent (Chart 2), which decreased by 3 basis points over the same period.

Only Central Bank statisticians could come up with an average which is lower than all the lowest rate in the population.


upload_2016-6-10_14-1-12.png



There is no equivalent euro rate to this nonsense Irish rate which includes trackers as new business.

They bury the correct figure in related data tables.
These are New Lending Rates excluding trackers.

upload_2016-6-10_13-57-7.png

So the comparable rate is 3.64% a full 1.78 percentage points about the comparable eurozone rate.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
There is no equivalent euro rate to this nonsense Irish rate which includes trackers as new business.
Click to expand...

Hi Brendan

As you know, the average Irish rate on new floating rate agreements for house purchases is calculated in accordance with the ECB's MIR methodology, which ensures a harmonised approach across the Eurozone and allows for an "apples to apples" comparison between the average rates charged in different jurisdictions (although it does not allow for lending fees and cash back incentives).

As it happens, virtually all floating rate mortgages on the continent (whether newly originated or renegotiated) are actually trackers. Why would you exclude renegotiated trackers from your Irish figure but include them in your Eurozone average figure?

Brendan Burgess said:
So the comparable rate is 3.64% a full 1.78 percentage points about the comparable eurozone rate.
Click to expand...

It's really not - that's comparing "apples to oranges". There is no weighted average standard or LTV variable figure available for the Eurozone as a whole.

The linked paper details the composition of new business for the purposes of the MIR data:-
[broken link removed]
 
Hi Sarenco


I am moving from Sydney to Ireland with my girlfriend. Doing a bit of budgeting. I am selling my house here and will be buying a house in Ireland. Not sure what percentage of the cost of the house I will have. I will go for a variable rate mortgage. What rate should I budget for? In other words, what is the average rate for new customers? I expect to have at least 10% of the value of the house, but I could have up to 50% depending on how we finance it.

Thanks

AG
 
Thanks for that, but I would like to know the average rate for a new borrower in Ireland? Could you tell me that please.
 
The current average LTV or standard variable rate for a new business PDH loans is set out in the first post. However, the best rate available to you will depend on your LTV and other individual circumstances.

Unfortunately, ultra-cheap tracker rates that a large portion of Irish borrowers are still enjoying are no longer offered by Irish lenders. On the bright side, house prices in Ireland are still a lot cheaper than was the case when trackers were on offer so you will have to borrow less to purchase a similar property.

Hope that helps.
 
Sarenco said:
The current average LTV or standard variable rate for a new business PDH loans is set out in the first post.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I was very confused by the different posts.

So the average rate is 3.08%? It's ok for me to do my calculations based on this figure?
 
You should do your calculations on the basis of your own specific circumstances and the best rates available to you personally. The rates that any other cohort of borrowers are paying is not relevant to your individual circumstances.

The ECB's MIR statistics are not designed for individual budgeting purposes and are not presented as such.

The Irish Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has a well-known and very user-friendly mortgage comparison tool that is specifically designed to allow consumers to establish the best available market rates in their circumstances:-

http://compare.consumerhelp.ie/Mortgage
 
Thank you

But I have asked you a very simple question.

What is the average rate for me as a new home buyer taking out a mortgage?

Can you confirm that it is 3.09%?
 
Aussie Guy said:
Thank you

But I have asked you a very simple question.

What is the average rate for me as a new home buyer taking out a mortgage?

Can you confirm that it is 3.09%?
Click to expand...


You won't pay any average rate - nobody does - you will pay whatever rate is appropriate to your individual circumstances.

The average new floating rate as calculated in accordance with the harmonised ECB framework was 3.08% at the end of April but that includes restructured loans, which is obviously not relevant to your individual circumstances.
 
Thanks again Sarenco.

We have a saying here in Australia - "Third time lucky". Not sure if you use it.

What is the average rate for the group of people like me who are taking out new mortgages? I have no idea what frameworks and the ECB and Harmonies have to do with it.

What do people taking out mortgages today in Ireland pay, on average?
 
Aussie Guy said:
Thanks again Sarenco.

We have a saying here in Australia - "Third time lucky". Not sure if you use it.

What is the average rate for the group of people like me who are taking out new mortgages? I have no idea what frameworks and the ECB and Harmonies have to do with it.

What do people taking out mortgages today in Ireland pay, on average?
Click to expand...

Did you even read my post above?!
 
The average new business LTV or standard variable rate at the end of March, as stated above, was 3.64%. Due to variable rate reductions by a number of Irish lenders in recent months, particularly for new borrowers, this average figure probably stands at around 3.40% today.

However, this average figure is skewed by the fact that one of Ireland's primary mortgage lenders is currently offering variable rate mortgages at deliberately uncompetitive rates to encourage borrowers to opt for fixed rate mortgage products (which historically exhibit much lower default rates). This strategy has proved very successful for the lender in question and they have captured a significant share of new mortgage business.

Again, no individual borrower pays an average rate - however calculated. MIR statistics are important in setting monetary policy and for comparing rates across Eurozone member states - but they are not relevant to individual budgeting decisions.

Hopefully that is now clear.
 
Sarenco

Thank you very much for answering my question.

We might settle in some other Eurozone country instead as that seems a bit on the high side.

What is the average rate being paid by people like me in the rest of the Eurozone? You know, people who are new customers to their banks?
 
Aussie Guy said:
What is the average rate being paid by people like me in the rest of the Eurozone? You know, people who are new customers to their banks?
Click to expand...

No idea - that data isn't available.

The average new floating rate across the Euro zone (including restructured loans) at the end of April was 1.86%. The comparable rate in Ireland at the end of April was 3.08%. That's the only comparable data we have at a Euro zone level but unfortunately it is of limited value to any individual borrower - that's not the purpose of the data.

I can also tell you the median rate being charged on all outstanding variable rate loans across the Euro zone (it's actually slightly lower in Ireland than the Euro zone average). Interesting at a macro level but again of limited interest to an individual borrower.

If you decide to settle in another Euro zone country you should bear in mind that most lenders charge a material fee for borrowing money on top of the agreed interest rate. Such fees are almost unheard of in Ireland - many lenders in Ireland actually offer cash incentives to borrowers.
 
Aussie Guy said:
Sarenco

Thank you very much for answering my question.

We might settle in some other Eurozone country instead as that seems a bit on the high side.

What is the average rate being paid by people like me in the rest of the Eurozone? You know, people who are new customers to their banks?
Click to expand...

Have you heard of Google?

There are even alternatives such as Yahoo and Bing for the rebellious types...
 
Last edited:
Sarenco said:
The average new floating rate across the Euro zone (including restructured loans) at the end of April was 1.86%.
Click to expand...

Hi Sarenco

Thank you for this. That seems very low compared to Ireland's figure.

What is a "restructured loan"

I won't be restructuring any loans. I will simply be taking out a mortgage as a new customer of the bank.
 
Yes, the Euro zone average figure is a lot lower than the comparable Irish figure.

The link to the Central Bank paper in the above post details what is included in the new business rate, including what is meant by a restructured loan.

I appreciate that you won't be restructuring a loan which is why I said the data is of limited value to an individual borrower. That is not the purpose of the data.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top