Central Bank at the Oireachtas Finance Committee to discuss SVR Bill

Brendan Burgess

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Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (Joint) CR2, LH 2000 9.30 a.m.
AGENDA: Pre-Legislative Scrutiny on the Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016 [Representatives of the Central Bank of Ireland]

There is still opposition to this Bill. It's essential that it be passed.

Get onto your TDs and ask them to go and ask the Governor questions. It would be especially helpful to get onto your FG TDs who have not engaged with this at all.

Brendan
 
You can read the full statement [broken link removed]

Introduction

Chairman, Committee members,

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill (‘the Bill’). The Governor of the Central Bank is at the Governing Council of the European Central Bank (ECB) today and sends his apologies in advance of his attendance before you on the 20 December.

As the potential effects of the Bill are relevant from consumer protection, financial stability and prudential supervision perspectives, I am joined today by the Central Bank’s Director of Consumer Protection and the Head of Financial Stability.

The Central Bank’s Mission of ‘Safeguarding Stability, Protecting Consumers’ is at the heart of all that we do. It encapsulates the dual and interdependent priorities for the Bank in delivering on its mandate.

Effective regulation and supervision driving well governed and well managed firms, which support economic growth and employment in Ireland, are outcomes which are in consumers’ long term interests. Similarly, the fair and equitable treatment of consumers is obviously fundamentally important in its own right but also in supporting the long-term viability of regulated firms and financial stability more generally.

The public debate surrounding Irish mortgage rates is understandable, as are the objectives of the Bill. A cursory comparison shows that some variable interest rates in Ireland remain amongst the highest in the euro area, despite recent reductions. However, the root causes of this are complex.

In my opening remarks today I will:

i) discuss some of the main features of the Irish private dwelling home (PDH) mortgage market;

ii) outline how some of the associated issues are impacting mortgage pricing in Ireland and show that there has been significant progress in addressing these issues; and

iii) summarise why the Bill may not achieve its stated aims and may have negative unintended consequences.

I. The Irish mortgage market

Mortgage arrears

The mortgage market in Ireland, like the wider housing market, is recovering, but it is still suffering the effects of the crisis that beset Ireland, and from the mortgage lending that took place in the period leading up to 2008.

Since the onset of the financial crisis, many mortgage holders have struggled to keep up with repayments. While the situation is improving, it is still acute, both at system level and also for individual borrowers in distress. The Central Bank has worked to ensure that the appropriate protections are in place for these borrowers who are in difficulty, and ensure that the banks have the financial and operational resources with which to resolve the problems.

At the end of June 2016, there were 740,834 PDH mortgage accounts in Ireland. Of these, 57,571 are in default (in other words, greater than 90 days past due on their payments) – of which 34,980 are greater than two years past due. 120,614[1] PDH mortgage loans have been restructured due to repayment difficulties.

The Central Bank has utilised its legislative powers to protect consumers by imposing a number of codes of conduct and requirements on regulated firms, including the Consumer Protection Code, the Code of Conduct on Mortgage Arrears (CCMA) and the Minimum Competency Code. While the Central Bank does not have a statutory function to regulate mortgage rates, we continue to prioritise the protection of mortgage holders.

A central element of the CCMA is that arrangements to solve mortgage arrears must be sustainable and based on a full assessment of the individual circumstances of the borrower, and that repossession should be used only as a last resort. Under the CCMA, a regulated entity may only commence legal proceedings for repossession of a PDH where it has made ‘every reasonable effort’ to agree on an alternative repayment arrangement with the borrower and where other clear requirements are adhered to. The introduction of Mortgage Arrears Resolution Targets (MART) in 2013 drove a material change in the mix of restructures agreed, with a shift away from interest-only type arrangements to more sustainable solutions.

As a direct consequence of these actions, together with improvements in the Irish economy, mortgage arrears are reducing, while every effort is being made to keep mortgage holders who are struggling to meet their payment obligations in their homes. Mortgage arrears have fallen for 12 successive quarters and by 43 per cent from peak, with more than 120,000 mortgage holders having their loans restructured (although I would note that this is not necessarily a cheaper option).

Nonetheless, mortgage lending is evidently riskier in Ireland than other Eurozone countries. Furthermore, due to the economic and social policy choices that have been made, being able to effect the security that underpins the loan is more challenging in Ireland in the event of a default than in many other Eurozone countries.

To illustrate this point, between 2009 and June 2016, 6,214 PDH properties have been repossessed in Ireland, 66 per cent of which were either voluntarily surrendered or abandoned by the borrower. Approximately one in five mortgages are or have been in default; fewer than one in three hundred have lost possession of their houses through the courts.

Interest rates

The stock of mortgages in Ireland can be broadly divided into fixed rate mortgages and floating rate mortgages, and the latter category can in turn be divided into standard variable rate mortgages (SVRs) and tracker rates. More and more variable rate mortgages are priced according to loan to value, but for the moment I will stick with using SVR as a catch-all for non-tracker variable rate mortgages.

Currently, around 90 per cent of outstanding mortgage loans for primary dwellings are on floating rates – 50 per cent are SVRs[2] with the remainder being trackers. Consequently, 90 per cent of PDH mortgage borrowers are exposed to interest rate risk, and vulnerable to interest rate rises.

Turning to mortgage interest rates themselves - the average interest rate across mortgage products in Ireland has fallen over recent years, and currently stands at 2.64 per cent. This is quite close to that of the weighted average in Eurozone countries at 2.55[3] per cent and is an exceptionally low level in historical terms for Irish borrowers, albeit that the average interest rate excluding tracker mortgages is 3.78 per cent, despite having declined in recent years.

But in the same way, as it is an oversimplification to refer only to one average interest rate for Irish mortgages, there are perils in oversimplifying our comparison with other Eurozone mortgage rates given the different characteristics of housing and mortgage markets in different Member States, including home ownership, the history of default and the balance between fixed and variable rate mortgages.

II. Factors impacting on variable rate mortgage pricing

In May 2015 the Central Bank published a paper on Influences on Standard Variable Mortgage Pricing in Ireland[4]. This Paper set out the range of factors which affect the margin that banks charge on variable rate mortgages, including the cost of funds, the credit risk associated with the lending, operational costs of running a bank, the cost of capital and the market structure and the competitive environment faced by each bank.

Looking at credit risk, despite considerable recent progress, European Banking Authority (EBA) stress test data shows that Ireland’s mortgage default rate is more than 10 times higher than many other Eurozone and European Union countries. In other words, as I touched on earlier, mortgages are higher risk in Ireland than in the majority of those countries with which mortgage rates are compared.

Table 1: Euro area comparison of mortgage risk and interest rates

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The EBA stress test data also shows banks operating in Ireland need to hold significantly more capital for Irish mortgages on average per euro of mortgage lending than other European banks, with associated higher costs, and hence mortgage rates.

The low level of repossessions I referred to earlier, creates uncertainty on the recoverability of collateral. Cross-country comparative research shows that increased recovery time is associated with lower availability of credit, and higher interest rates.[5]

A further determinant of bank lending margins, and hence pricing, is the degree of competition in the market. The crisis resulted in considerable structural changes to the Irish banking sector including increased concentration. We have seen some nascent signs of restoration in competition, with the reductions in variable rates, some increasing product differentiation, and potentially some small new entrants – but this is not of significant scale at this stage.

The ability and willingness of consumers to switch mortgage products is vital to ensure a well-functioning market. The level of switching of mortgages in Ireland is low. In this context, the additional transparency measures announced by the Central Bank in July, and which will come into effect from 1 February 2017, are aimed at increasing transparency and facilitating consumer choice. This has become more important as we have started to see greater differentiation in product offerings and mortgage pricing.

The vast majority of SVR borrowers in positive and negative equity could benefit from either switching to another provider or to another product with the same provider. Switching offers the dual benefits of potentially reducing monthly costs and/or the length of the mortgage, with potential savings of tens of thousands of euros. The more people who start to switch, the less the ability the banks will have to differentiate between new borrowers and existing.

The Central Bank is also examining what additional measures it can take to address any impediments to switching, notwithstanding that there is a material difference between switching current accounts or utility provider and entering into an arrangement involving lending a customer sizeable sums on a 20-plus year basis.

III. The Central Bank assessment of the proposed Bill

Turning to our assessment of the Bill, it is far from certain that the Bill will be successful in delivering its aims. We are concerned that the Bill focuses on the symptoms of a complex problem and may, therefore, not only be unsuccessful but runs the risk of being counter-productive, as it may have damaging side effects on the functioning of the market.

From both a financial stability and a consumer protection perspective, it is essential that banks have sustainable business models that take into account the risks that are inherent in their lending practices. There is a risk that capping interest rates will result in an under-pricing of credit risk, as was experienced in Ireland and internationally to such dangerous effect in the past.

Alternatively, were this legislation to be introduced, lenders may adapt their credit standards and offer variable mortgage loans only to new customers with a low risk profile – ultimately reducing credit availability. Lenders could also raise interest rates on other loans, and increase fees and commissions, in order to maintain or achieve sustainable capital generation.

It is important that banks have the ability to generate capital to transition towards full implementation of new regulatory capital requirements. Adequate capitalisation is essential for a properly functioning banking system and to ensure sufficient availability of credit for businesses and households, as well as to strengthen the resilience of banks to future shocks.

Additionally, the proposed legislation may have the entirely unintended effects of stifling competition and innovation and dissuade entry of new participants to the Irish market. International evidence indicates that competitive financing markets are important for the choice, quality and pricing of financial products, which are all in the interests of the consumer.

Furthermore, with regard to the interest rates charged on existing SVR mortgage loans, they are subject to existing contracts and contract law, which only a judge could override, not a public body like the Central Bank.

We are also concerned about the extension of the Bank’s statutory functions to encompass the regulation of competition, which is a function already carried out by the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CPCC).

Finally, we also note the ECB’s concerns raised in its opinion[6] on the Bill, and the European Commission’s view, as articulated in the summary of the post-programme surveillance statement issued last week.

Concluding remarks

I appreciate that the positions I have outlined today are arguments against what might be perceived as a quick action to reduce SVR mortgage rates, which are low by historical standards, albeit higher than in countries with much lower default histories.

Material improvements have been recorded in many of the factors underlying mortgage rates in recent years, most notably lower household indebtedness, lower numbers in negative equity, lower numbers in arrears or default, improved resilience of the banking sector, and ultimately a gradual progression from impaired functioning to a banking system that can support economic growth, employment, and incomes. These improvements have coincided with some reductions in SVR rates. Further progress is expected in the coming years as the impact of the measures taken continue to feed through to the mortgage market and financial system and as the economic recovery continues.

The issues in the mortgage market are complex and rooted in the crisis, and clear economic and social policy choices have been made in managing the crisis and navigating a path out of it. Short term fixes may have long term negative consequences for consumers. Decisions to intervene legislatively in the mortgage market, as with any market, should be taken with due cognisance of the market, the factors that are leading to the perception of market failure, the underlying causes, and risks associated with the action and the likely outcomes.

Notwithstanding these concerns, as the Governor has previously stated, if these powers are conferred upon the Bank, we will do as we always do, and strive to deliver to the best of our abilities the duties and mandate that are given to us.

The Central Bank remains focused on delivery of its full mandate and is committed to working with all stakeholders to support the continued normalisation of the Irish mortgage market.

Thank you.

Notes to table 1

Columns 1-3 are based on December 2015 European Banking Authority stress test & ECB statistics

Columns 3- 6 are ECB statistical data

*Loss rate = credit provision to total mortgages.

**ECB data on new business mortgage rates are for euro area countries only.

1 Rate excluding tracker mortgages, Q3 2016.

2 Rate excluding renegotiations, Oct 2016.

[1] The Central Bank has prepared a detailed analysis of the latest position of mortgage arrears which is with the Minister for Finance and we expect it to be released imminently. This shows that there continues to be significant progress in addressing mortgage arrears, albeit that the level still remains too high.

[2] Includes up to 1 year fixed

[3] The weighted average of all Euro area mortgage loans is 2.55%. The average of Euro area countries is 2.29%

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/legal/pdf/en_con_2016_54_f_signed.pdf

 
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Michael McGrath

It would be better is legislation were not necessary.

Banks must be sustainable and have adequate capital.

However, variable rate borrowers are being treated unfairly and discriminated against.

The CPC requires banks to operate fairly.

Is it fair for certain banks to treat some existing customers differently from new customers
Ptsb -
BoI keeping SVR high

Sibley:
I want to talk about the market
The Bill refers to market market failure
In any competitiove market there will be choice and differentiation of products
Over time,the choices and experience of consumers will vary

Is it fair that two borrowers living next door, one could be on an SVR and one on tracker is that fair? One could be in NE and the other not, is that fair?

We want there to be transparency?

Over time there will be differences?

McGrath
The CB is the ultimate judge of what is fair.
We are talking about people on the same product - one is a new customer and one is existing
It's a
You do deem it as fair, because you are doing nothing about it.

Sibley
The banks are
97% of SVRs can switch to a lower rate.
Customers do have a choice
They have the exact same choice as new customers ( And this guy is supervising banks)
A fixed rate product

We are talking about 1 year fixed products

Sheridan
The code focusses on how banks are treating customers
The committee is aware of our role in pricing
SVR was standard and was simpler
Banks have moved away
We have introduced new measures
The banks are making the new rates available to existing customers.

McGrath
Your report on SVR pricing from 2015
Is it your view that variable rate mortgages are appropriately priced?
Is that the view you have come to?
Where do you see it going?

Sibley
There is range of products and pricing
There is a degree of differention
Some lenders are focussing on fixed rates
Let's look at credit risk
We have very high levels of default and difficutly in effecting security compare to other countries
Unsecured rates are higher
The vast majority of borrowers have options - they can save money today. More than 80% can save money by switching.

McGrath
Borrowers who can switch should switch
Will you be introducing a code of conduct for switcher?

Sheridan
From 1 February, they will have to notify customers of the best product available for them.
We are talking to customers about the switching process

1/5th of mortgages were switchers in 2008
Last year it's 2% , but climing to 8%
But there was less differentiation
Go to the excellent tool

McGrath
If a vulture fund raises the rate to 9% and that customer can't switch , what can you do?

Sheridan
It's one of ourconcern
We don't regulate the unregulated sector or interest rates
We are monitoring what they are doing
There is no sign of rates being increased
We can go back to government if the behaviour

MCcGrath
If they rais the rate can you do anything.

Sheridan
There is unfair legislation in place if the rate is exorbitant
We wouldn't sit idly by.
We could go to government
Our powers are limited

McGrath
Limite or do you have any?

Sheridan/Sibley
They are protected by the CCMA.

McGrath
The ECB very interesting that rates are restricted in a number of member states
Belgium, France, Bulgaria, Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary

They don't think that the CB should have a role

The cap is set in legislation. But the CB sets a market rate

We have caps in relation to Creidt Institution, Money lenders

There is n't any ideological opp;osition

If you did not have the competition role, but if you could arreive at reference rate, would you

Sibley
We don't have any objections with the objectives as the bill
The market is not functioning as it is
there are caps in place in Europe.

sEtting Reference rates - there is a danger that there could be a tendency to migrate towards them.

With the mortgage limits, they are set as targets,

We wouldn't rule it out, but the concerns in this bill are side effects and unintended consequences

We should focus on the factors causing the problems

McGrath
Do you have any live applications for licenses

Sibley
There is engagement on at least one potential new entry
Relatively small
one thing I observed, if there was a degree of abnormal profits, why are there no new entrants

A lender does not need a license, they can just set a branch up here or lend directly.

McGRath
the market is small
lots of people can't move

McGrath #
Do you have any applications

Sheridan
Yes, we have one non-bank
But there is no queue
I am not aware of entrants in the non banking sector
 
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Pearse Doherty

When was that appliction received ?

Sheridan
I can't discuss that.

Doherty
You mentioned competitioin and we have heard others for
What would the average time for a new entrant

Sheridan
I regulate the non-banks
Firms have not expressed any interest
It's only now we are seeing new interest

Sibley
There is a degree of engagement and discussion
Fact finding from our perspective and their perspectiv
But when we get the application, it's relatively quick, a matter of months.
The initial discussion could take months

Doherty
Do you feel that the CB is treating any applications with urgency
It has been reported that there is an application which went in over a year ago
ARe you givign them priority?
Have you the right resources

Sibley
In short yes
We will try to deliver on our mandate quickly
We are gatekeepers - the firms looking to come here
There will not be any favouritism we will prioritise

We have resourcing challenges.

Doherty
How many people in the bank would deal with an application of this nature

Sibley
Credit Suisse was the most recent application and lots were involved as it was complex

Doherty
Who heads it up
If I want to provide mortgages
Who is responsible

Sibley
The Deputy Governor and he would set up an authoriation committee
Any new bank is the responsbility of the ECB
I am responsible for banks

Sheridan
I have ultimate responsibiltiy for non banks
But I am not concerned about resources

Doherty
The objectives of the bill is to reduce variable rate mortgages . Do you share the objectives

Sibley
We would like rates to come down and the market to return to normality
The concern is that the bill is treaing the symptom
Rates are higher relative to other countries. But thaat is a dangerous comparison
But look at the causes - we should focus on them. and the CB is focussin on them.

Doherty
Does the bank believe that there is presently scope for the banks to reduce rates?

Sibley
Interest rates have reduced
There is clear daylight between some providers
There is now greater choice

Doherty
The question I am asking is
For someone taking out a 50% mortgage, do you believe that the variable rate charged on that is excessive
There is no risk

Sibley
And it's way higher for the reason I have given
For the reasons I have given
The default rate is 10 times higher

Doherty
If the lTV is50%, even if there is a default there will be no loss?

Sibley
If we want security, there is a higher risk or lot longer to repossess

Doherty
You say you need to deal with the underlying issue. The uncertainty.
Are you saying that we need to make it easier to repossess a property
You said the CCMA is the only protection
So you are giving out different messages

(Doherty is brilliant!)

Sibley
I am not saying that the banks want more repossessions
If I look at the mortgage market today,t here are sizeable arears
There are many over 2 years
We are not looking for an increase
We are just saying that it's

Doherty
The banks have made full provision for theose losses
You can't apply a rate to new customers for those who
You ahve fully provided and you are writing back those provisions

Sibley
Banks price based on the costs
In terms of practice - Irish banks require far more capital
The probably of default is much higher than in other countries
The Loss when someone defaults
120,000 borrowers have had solutions
 
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Diversion on tracker redress scheme.
Doherty
I would take issue with the way the banks
You sat on your hands on the tracker mortgage issue
You did nothing on this

You say that only a judge can override a contract
Did you take legal advice

Sibley: that is an intrnal view

Sheridan
We have always dealt with tracker issues. But they kept arising, so we are now dealing with them systematically. That is why we introduced this examination.

Doherty
This committee we wrote to you asking you to a review
4 years ago, when the case was in front of the high court, you did nothing.
You did not identify this.
Customers did
And the CB who was supposed to regulate customers
There are serious questions about your laissez-faire attitude.
You could have stepped in at any time over those 4 year.
You had the ability and the resonsbilty to deal with this
And now we find that there were 9,000 customers
It was robbery. now called "redress"
It's like a burglar returning a flat screen telly.
it's because they wore suits

Sibley
I disagree

Sheridan
We did take firm specific action
The appeals to the high court and Supreme Court created difficulties for us
We have supervisory issues

Doherty
I appreciate that the banks would not have owned up if you had not put presure on them last December
We will come at this again.
This is disgrace what you allowed to happen.
You did it but you did it 4 years too late

McGuinness (chairman)
What will you say to the two banks who said that what they did caused the loss of14 homes.

Sheridan
They wouldn't be saying this, if we werenot carrying out the review.
It's a disgrace.

McGuinness
What will you be able to do?

Sheridan
We will insist that there will be full compensation
This review is being led by the Central Bank

McGuiness
So you won't allow them to to decide how to compensate

Sheridan
We oversee the framework.
If the customer doesn't like the compensation, they can go to the FSO
 
Doherty
Back to the Bill

There is unanimous report for this Bill in the Dáil
Not just for reduced rates but for the CB to have powers
This will only work if you use the powers
If we pass this legislation, the concern is that you may signal to the banks that you won't use the bill.
Legislation is nto the best way to do this.
But if the Oireachtas passes this legislation, will you use it?

Sibley
The Governor is clear and i was clear in my opening statement
We will deliver on the mandate given to us
We are not concerned with the objectives, but with the implications

Doherty
Vulture funds raising rates to 10% - you have no powers in this regard.
If you had this tool at the minute, you wouldn't use it.
But what is the tipping point.
Would you use it at 6%?

Sibley
A quarterly assessment to see if there is market failure
We would make a determination based on the bill
There is no reference in the bill to credit risk

Doherty
We cand eal with credit risk at committee stage
You have suggested that banks may raise fees to compensate, have you any indicationfrom banks that they will do that.

Sibley
We are looking to the future. We are raising certain side effects Would contract law supersede the bill
 
Senator Paddy Burke (FG)
Is there any precedent for where the CB intervenes to lower rates in Ireland?

Sibley
No

McGrath
YOu should give a fuller anser

Sibley
Yes - credit unions and money lenders

Burke
So there is no reason it could not extend to mortgages?

Sibley
12% for Credit Unions
There is precedent . yes.
 
Rose Conway-Walsh

When you say Ireland is riskier than any other country.
Has the same risk been consistent since 2008.
Will this always be the way.
Unemployment has fallen.
GDP has grown
The Banks' costs have continuously

Cassidy
This is a key link between credit risk and lending rates
The key indicatiors of credit risk have beenreducing -
Total indebtedness 200% of household income to 150%^
40% were in negative equioty in 2012, it's now 15% , but this will continue to fall
The arrears have fallen from 17% in 2013 to
Unemployment has fallen from 15% to 8%, but we expect it to continue to fall.

All of these indicators are on an improving thread.

As households come out of negative equity, they are easier to move

But the indicators are all high compared to other Europeean countries

Conway-Walsh


Do you have any powers to stop the sale of PDH loans to vulture funds?

Sibley
No. Greece doesn't allow it.

Sheridan
We advocated for certain legislative protection of these borrowers
But the legislation was somewhat different from what we wanted.
One day you are a customer of a bank, the next you are a customer of a fund from abroad.
We have struggled to make sure that they are treated the same, especially if they are in mortgage difficulty

Conway-Walsh
What role do you have in terms of mortgage contracts

Sheridan
We have no role
There is no prohibition on switching.
But someone in arrears or NE can't switch

Sibley
You can swich product within the existing provider if you can't switch.
 
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Kieran O'Donnell
You have limited powers in relation to the sale of mortgages.
How are your powers different if two people have the same problem - one with a bank and one with a vulture fund

Sheridan
With a bank, we can talk to the CEO or attend the board meeting.
With the loan owners we have to work through Credit Servicing Firms.

O'Donnell
Certus would be managing loans for Cerberus
Let's say AIB queries their rate. What powers do you ahve

Sheridan
We have a range of powers. CCMA , The CPC and they must comply with that.
They all apply to the Credit Servicing firms

if it's to do with the rate, it's a decision for the loan owner.

O'Donnell
In the case of AIB - what can you do about the rate

Sibley
They can go to the FSO
We only intervene where there is a very serious problem
We can go directly to the lender

Sheridan
The vulture funds provide a challenge
Some allow the servicer to exercise initiative. Others don't.
We have no supervisory power over the lender
Your terms and conditions have not changed. if you are not in arrears, you are not affected.

O'Donnell
Is it possible to allow the CB to deal with the owner of the loan

Sibley
We pushed hard for the power to supervise the new owners, but the legislation made us supervise the servicing agents.
We have no teeth with the loan owners
But that doesn't preclude us from dealing with the owners, but we have no teeth.


O'Donnell
Would you like the power to deal directly with the loan owners.
You have no teeth.
If it's a large company, could they be required to manage it within the country?

Sheridan
The legislaton has achieved a lot
But we are monitoring it. If we see issues, we will let government know.

O'Donnell
Where do you see the mortgage market in three years' time
Will the banks be able to provide the money to buy newly built houses
Is the banking system fit for purpose

Sibley
Conditions are improving
There is momentum in addressing the arrears issues and they will continue to fall, absent a shock
If we deal with some of the underlying issues, other entrants might be interested
Can they fund 25,000 houses? It's more about funding the builders rather than the mortgage holders. We are studying that area.

Cassidy
A well capitalised banking system is essential.
The ESRI study finds that the deposits of Irish citizens
Foreign banks may have access to stable funding.
There may be other sources of funding.

We don't want new competition leading to reckless lending
 
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Burke: How far back can you go

Sheridan: Since the trackers were first issued in Ireland

Burke
Where do the fines go

Sibley
Into the exchequer
There is a cap on the fines

Burke
The CB seems to be slow toact in the case of ptsb and Ulster Bank

Sibley
How did the CB pick up the issue.

Sheridan
There have been tracker issues for some time, since people began fixing in 2007 and 2008.
But because issues continued to emerge we needed a complete review.

Burke
The CB was very slow to act.

Sheridan
The appeal to the Supreme Court stopped us getting involved.

Burke
YOu knew all along that the banks were out of order
Could you not have spoken to the banks

Sheridan
We push the banks as far as we can.

Burke
You failed in this case

Sheridan
No. The opposite.

Sibley
In one case, a bank went to the Supreme court so we could not intervene.
That does not mean we are not intervening in other cases.
 
Michael McGrath

The preferred approach of the CB was to regulate the loan owners. But the government took an alternative view.

The owner makes the decisions on interest rates.

That is a real gap.

10,000 family homes now owned by unreglatied lenders

Who are the retail credit firms?

Sheridan
Small companies. they are not banks. For example, Pepper , Start, Haven, dilosk, Stepstone
They are different from Banks and different from Credit Servicing Firms
They don't take deposits

We don't regulate them prudentially

McGrath
Are there any restrictions on who can purchase loans?

Sheridan: No

McGrath
The SME loans are now being bought by vulture funds . And being sold on to someone else and could end in unsavoury hands.
 
McGrath
When will you be making an announcement on the tracker issue

Sheridan
We will give an update shortly

it won't be finalised until the end of 2017.

We can fine up to €10m or % of turnover whichever is higher.
 
McGrath
The ECB very interesting that rates are restricted in a number of member states
Belgium, France, Bulgaria, Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary

They don't think that the CB should have a role

The cap is set in legislation. But the CB sets a market rate

We have caps in relation to Creidt Institution, Money lenders

There is n't any ideological opp;osition

If you did not have the competition role, but if you could arreive at reference rate, would you

Interesting.

Is Michael McGrath signalling a subtle, but important, change in FF's approach in the framing of that question?

I have long advocated on here the introduction of a statutory cap at a fixed percentage over a reference rate (such as the average rate charged on all outstanding mortgages in the preceding quarter). That would bring us into line with the French approach and all constitutional and competition concerns with the current FF Bill would melt away.

However, that is not what the current FF Bill provides for. Instead, the Bill, as currently drafted, would give price fixing powers to the Central Bank - which I believe would be contrary to the long-term interests of consumers.
 
That would bring us into line with the French approach and all constitutional and competition concerns with the current FF Bill would melt away.

Correct, and as has been pointed out to you many times, would not cause any reduction in the excessive interest rates being charged. The only advantage of this is that it would stop particular lenders charging a lot more than the average. But the lowest rate in Ireland is over 1% higher than the rate being charged in the Eurozone.

So your proposal would not serve the majority of people.

Brendan
 
So your proposal would not serve the majority of people.

It's not intended to benefit the majority of borrowers - it's intended to prevent lenders charging usurious rates of interest where borrowers are not in a position to refinance their loans.

I appreciate that you take a different view but in my opinion price fixing is never in the long-term interests of consumers.

Motor insurance premiums in Ireland are also way above the EU average - should we introduce price fixing in this area? What about electricity costs? Medicine? Food? The list is endless.
 
I agree that a comparison between Irish mortgage rates with European mortgage rates is far to simplistic and doesn't deal with the underlying issues.

The high levels of defaulted mortgages & "restructured mortgages" (which are paying below market rates), the lack of repossessions, the difficulty in accessing security when repossession is sought, the higher cost of capital, high levels of negative equity. All of those push up the risk. From your commentary above Mr. Doherty sought to get the CBI rep to clarify that he wanted higher levels of repossessions - and disappointingly, as can be expected, the CBI rep backtracked.

I do not agree that new mortgage rates should be available to pre-existing borrowers. A contract is a contract and if you don't like it you should switch. It was interesting the CBI rep outlined how low the switcher rates were - this is scandalous (20% in 2008 versus 8% in 2016 even though rates are a much bigger "issue" today).
 
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