C I E cash problems

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dewdrop

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It seems odd that this issue more or less suddenly hit the airwaves when the Dail was going on holidays. Surely they must have known for some time past that this cash prorblem was looming. Two small things that irritate me about CIE group are the fact that buses are left with engine running for long periods outside bus stations and also many of their provincial services carry only one or two passengers. I think there is scope for great saving in reducing these services without incurring the usual outcry.
 
Given that they need a dig-out how can they justify spending money on TV ads telling people how to queue for, and get on and off, a bus.
 
They need to increase the low frequency rural services while improving punctuality, make people realise they can rely on them and that they are a viable alternative to private transport. This will lead to increased usership.

The only reason they are half empty is because people don't think it is worth their while taking a bus.
 
They should abandon low frequency rural services altogether, and scale down the high frequency services that are not attracting sufficient demand. Then they and/or the State should allow these service routes to be opened to private competition. There are many routes that could profitably be serviced by nippy minibuses rather than big, lumbering, thirsty coaches.
 
the private operators dont want to touch many of these routes, they would only want to cherrypick the good routes. CIE dosent have that luxury.
 
blueband said:
the private operators dont want to touch many of these routes, they would only want to cherrypick the good routes. CIE dosent have that luxury.
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You put the PSO routes up for tender. Private operators will bid for them. If not, then the State can look at providing them itself. No different to Ryanair operating the PSO routes when the Government subsidised them. The question is if private operators can deliver the services cheaper than CIE.

Personally, I would be reluctant to privatise every bit of public transport but bus routes in Dublin for example should be opened up entirely.
 
You could also tender a group of routes together, say 2 "busy" routes and 1 "quiet" route with an SLA in place with penalties. Of course, unless the current workers in CIE can come off the payroll then all of this would be in vain.
 
There was a private bus route (locolink) in Ballinteer / Stillorgan area a few years back, but from what I understand it lost a bit of money and didn't last too long.

I think it would be hard for many operators to operate routes like CIE does (i.e. frequency etc) with an ability to adhere to schedules and all that.
 
Kine said:
There was a private bus route (locolink) in Ballinteer / Stillorgan area a few years back, but from what I understand it lost a bit of money and didn't last too long.

I think it would be hard for many operators to operate routes like CIE does (i.e. frequency etc) with an ability to adhere to schedules and all that.
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There is also the problem of questionable tactics by CIE whenever private operators come on the scene. Look at all the court cases in recent years. I remember hearing some of the things the Swords Express service had/has to put up with and it is shocking what a semi-state company can resort to.

I remember the days before before Aircoach came on the scene and the awful service provided by Dublin Bus from the airport. It took a private operator coming in to make Dublin Bus up its game.
 
Sunny said:
There is also the problem of questionable tactics by CIE whenever private operators come on the scene. Look at all the court cases in recent years. I remember hearing some of the things the Swords Express service had/has to put up with and it is shocking what a semi-state company can resort to.
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25-30 years ago, Streamline and Whartons were competing vigorously with Bus Eireann on the Cavan-Dublin express route. Bus Eireann then squeezed both off the route with a combination of legal nitpicking and a saturation hourly service. Thankfully both companies successfully diversified into other markets. In the meantime, the Bus Eireann 109 service has deteriorated badly, has jacked up its fares and now doesn't even bother availing of the M3 motorway. So it is haemmorhaging customers and the hourly buses are often less than half full. Even with the new motorway built, and the city bus lanes, the service is worse and slower than it was in the 1980s.
 
T McGibney said:
25-30 years ago, Streamline and Whartons were competing vigorously with Bus Eireann on the Cavan-Dublin express route. Bus Eireann then squeezed both off the route with a combination of legal nitpicking and a saturation hourly service. Thankfully both companies successfully diversified into other markets. In the meantime, the Bus Eireann 109 service has deteriorated badly, has jacked up its fares and now doesn't even bother availing of the M3 motorway. So it is haemmorhaging customers and the hourly buses are often less than half full. Even with the new motorway built, and the city bus lanes, the service is worse and slower than it was in the 1980s.
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Sums it up alright.
 
Firefly said:
You could also tender a group of routes together, say 2 "busy" routes and 1 "quiet" route with an SLA in place with penalties.
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One doesn't even have to do that. In the US, non-profitable routes can be specified and tendered by the state. The lowest tender wins.

The opposite applies on profitable routes - who'll offer the state the most money to operate a monopoly.
 
Firefly said:
You could also tender a group of routes together, say 2 "busy" routes and 1 "quiet" route with an SLA in place with penalties. Of course, unless the current workers in CIE can come off the payroll then all of this would be in vain.
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problem is that the 'quite' route would eventually end up with a more shoddy service, older buses ect..
 
blueband said:
problem is that the 'quite' route would eventually end up with a more shoddy service, older buses ect..
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Not if it is done right. Have service level agreements in place. Look at London. There are dozens of different private operators running bus services in london but because they are all made use big red buses, everybody thinks it is just one company. The routes are tendered out every 5 years. The standard of vehicle and service levels are closely controlled. It's not rocket science.
 
T McGibney said:
25-30 years ago, Streamline and Whartons were competing vigorously with Bus Eireann on the Cavan-Dublin express route. Bus Eireann then squeezed both off the route with a combination of legal nitpicking and a saturation hourly service.
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Something similar in Lucan about 10-12 years ago. I think the private company involved were called Mortons. From memory they provided a good service but Dublin Bus put on extra buses just before the Morton's buses and they found it impossible to compete. I think they went out of business.
 
City buses in Cork are pretty emphy most of the day.



Prices are too high.

You can't even get an early bus from Cork to Waterford.

Throwing money at CIE is like throwing money down the drain.
 
cork said:
City buses in Cork are pretty emphy most of the day.



Prices are too high.

You can't even get an early bus from Cork to Waterford.

Throwing money at CIE is like throwing money down the drain.
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If there was money to be made from a Cork to Waterford service do you not think a private operator would be doing it? If there isn't money to be made then it's an extra subvention for very few passengers, how many people do you think want to go from Cork to Waterford early in the day?

Prices are too high? Is that for Cork City services or general public transport services? Go to London and see the prices there - £4 for a couple of stops on the tube (if you don't have an oyster card).

There are definitely inefficiencies in CIE but your points are incorrect.
 
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