Architect fee for house extension - Is this reasonable??

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RMur

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I'm hoping somebody can provide some guidance -

I wish to build a one story 35sqm single storey extension (which needs planning permission due to stipulation in original planning permission granted for the development area) onto my house and received a quote from an architect. The service offered include:

  • site visit and preparation of drawing ofr valuation and planning query
  • liaising with planner based on this drawing and OS map,
  • design of extension, - involving a couple of meetings
  • preparation of planning application and preparation of necessary drawings
  • submission of planning application form
  • site notice
  • submission of newspaper advertisement
The fee quoted for planning permission application is €2,400 plus a cost of €200 per site visit if these are required while on site (plus VAT).

Does this quote seem reasonable or is it outside the going rate?

Some guidance would be appreciated as this is out first experience with architects! Cheers!
 
It reads as being pretty fair though I would push for the inclusion of working construction drawings for that price. It should not be a major cost to develope these once planning has been accepted.

Be sure that you are engaging with an architect, check the architects institute website for registration details.

Also ask for a copy of professional indemnity insurances and verify with the insurance company that the policy is active.
 
Sconhome thanks for the reply.

In order to reduce costs, would it be realistic for my husband and I to consider liaising with the planner and preparing and submitting the application ourselves and just using the architect to:

prepare drawing for valuation and planning query
design of extension, - involving a couple of meetings
preparation of necessary drawings for the planning application
 
The biggest saving the architect can do for you is in preparing proper tender documentation for contractors and managing the contract to avoid cost over-runs. that does not appear to be included. Site visits probably only refer to checking compliance for certification purposes. Watch your step!
 
RMur said:
I'm hoping somebody can provide some guidance -

I wish to build a one story 35sqm single storey extension (which needs planning permission due to stipulation in original planning permission granted for the development area) onto my house and received a quote from an architect. The service offered include:

  • site visit and preparation of drawing ofr valuation and planning query
  • liaising with planner based on this drawing and OS map,
  • design of extension, - involving a couple of meetings
  • preparation of planning application and preparation of necessary drawings
  • submission of planning application form
  • site notice
  • submission of newspaper advertisement
The fee quoted for planning permission application is €2,400 plus a cost of €200 per site visit if these are required while on site (plus VAT).

Does this quote seem reasonable or is it outside the going rate?

Some guidance would be appreciated as this is out first experience with architects! Cheers!
Click to expand...

We are going to the process of building an extension and your fees do not seem too bad but the site visits seem expensive.
We are building a 2 story extension approx 48sqm. We are able to use an existing garage which will be cheaper than doing an extension from scratch. Our architect is charging us €4,200 + VAT. This includes what you have mentioned above plus drawing of the construction drawings, preparing tender contracts for builder, issuing of certs for banks and weekly site visits (6 to 8).

When we were getting quotes from architects, i know one was going to charge €50 per site visit.
 
RMur said:
I'm hoping somebody can provide some guidance -

I wish to build a one story 35sqm single storey extension (which needs planning permission due to stipulation in original planning permission granted for the development area) onto my house and received a quote from an architect. The service offered include:

  • site visit and preparation of drawing ofr valuation and planning query
  • liaising with planner based on this drawing and OS map,
  • design of extension, - involving a couple of meetings
  • preparation of planning application and preparation of necessary drawings
  • submission of planning application form
  • site notice
  • submission of newspaper advertisement
The fee quoted for planning permission application is €2,400 plus a cost of €200 per site visit if these are required while on site (plus VAT).

Does this quote seem reasonable or is it outside the going rate?

Some guidance would be appreciated as this is out first experience with architects! Cheers!
Click to expand...

Its reasonable unless you're a demanding client in which case I'd double it.

Buts frighteningly low for a full service.

Typically its 1/3 1/3 1/3 for Planning Tender and Site, to included certification.

Some people seem to think working drawings grow on trees.

Are you sure yer maun has a qualification?

Is he registered?

Not all architects who may be competent are registered yet.

But you can check those who are by visiting http://www.riai.ie

:)

ONQ.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
Checked and it appears that the architect is registered with the RIAI. A family member will be building the extension so the architect would not need to prepare tender contracts.
As this will be factored into our mortgage, should we expect a large additional payment for the architect for issuing certs to the bank for the draw-down?
 
Yes you probably should. Apart from the fact that the architect will have to visit the site before issuing each cert for stage payment, you may also be charged extra for opinons on compliance at the end as this takes work and creates a possible professional indemnity liability as the architect must stand over the certs to the banks too. I suggest that you get the architect to agree that he is including the issuing of such certs in his price and also to specify what visits he will have to make to the site for those purposes and for monitoring (excluding any visits where you call him).
 
RMur said:
should we expect a large additional payment for the architect for issuing certs to the bank for the draw-down?
Click to expand...


This is possibly covered with the site visit costs which are to verify compliance.

Site visits contrary to depictions on the TV are not for the architect to wave his arms around insisting you stick to his design, there is a real purpose to these visits ;)
 
onq said:
Buts frighteningly low for a full service.
Click to expand...

I would agree, in general terms, but there are an awful lot of superb architects (and technicians) who have been dropped out of big practise over the past 2 years.

Many are in the early stages of running their own business and are quite good value. The guys I know would prefer to get a regular steady range of fees than hope for the big one!

onq said:
Some people seem to think working drawings grow on trees.
Click to expand...

Its the peanuts people expect to pay that grow on the trees. Well not exactly, peanuts are a ground crop, but you'll get my drift. :)
 
you are definetly been ripped off. am getting a 47sq m extension. planing permission and all correspondence with council dealt with for 1,200vat included.will inspect site and issue cert of complicance for 900 vat included
 
rosemartin said:
you are definetly been ripped off. am getting a 47sq m extension. planing permission and all correspondence with council dealt with for 1,200vat included.will inspect site and issue cert of complicance for 900 vat included
Click to expand...

Assuming you have managed to get a comparatively qualified and insured architect then you have managed to get a great deal with your professional. €2,100 all inclusive?

Rates will also vary based on the complexity of the project too or on the expected level of input required for the planning process.
 
yes my architect is all qualified and has pii,had to produce all to bank as part of top up mortgage offer
 
Sconhome said:
Be sure that you are engaging with an architect, check the architects institute website for registration details.
Click to expand...

Not all Architects are Registered! The process for registration has not been set up yet by RIAI. Therefore it is incorrect to say all "Architects" are on the current old list.

Judge your Architect by reputation, past designs in your area and recommendations from friends etc. Check for full PI insurance.
Get a detailed letter / contract from your Architect, outlining all services, site visits, certification etc included in his fee. So there is no misunderstanding later on.

€2100 plus vat for planning - single storey extension is expensive. But if includes working drawings, tenders, contracts, site inspections & Certs then "its cheap as chips!". (I doubt it includes anything more than applying for planning permission.)
 
all discussed, my man is a realist knows work is scarce and is not living in the past has adjusted to the new order
 
RKQ,

For clarity I was using the RIAI as a point of reference as not all architects are architects. It would be a good place to start when verifying that anyone calling themselves an architect is in fact an architect.

There are many architectural practises around offering architectural services but it doesn't necessarily mean there is an architect at the helm of these businesses. And I am not diminishing architectural services either, but there is a vast difference.
 
Hi, on a related issue can anyone tell me the basis for charges by Architects; I know that sometimes it is a percentage of the total construction costs which I think is unreasonable, but if a percentage isnt used, is it on the size of the construction or the preceived complexity? or do they charge per hour or per job (eg so much for drawings, so much for advising on specs, so much for liasing with planner or engineer etc) - is there an industry norm on which estimated or project fees are based? or does it vary architect to architect? thanks. I hope this wont be seen as my hijacking the original thread.
 
On the contrary, a percentage fee is very reasonable and the old rates suggested by the RIAI started high within a low price range and the percentage diminished with increased costs. It is reasonable because in general the comlpexity of the project and the workload associated with it rises in proportion to costs. Sompe people think its unreasoanble because they expect something for nothing.

Architects are under pressure right now by some unscrupulous clients driving them out of business by either not paying profitable rates or not paying at all.

This is not a "new order" - its oppressive or in come cases criminal actions by clients.
I've recently issued a seven-day notice to one of mine - first time suing someone, but I suspect it won't be the last.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
rosemartin said:
all discussed, my man is a realist knows work is scarce and is not living in the past has adjusted to the new order
Click to expand...

Plenty of "new order" builders out there not finishing work, not building compliantly, not paying their subbies and eventually going out of business.

Working below cost isn't a "new order" - its professional suicide.

That's not "getting good value" - that's exploitation.

ONQ.
 
Hi, I think that a percentage fee is unreasonable because if for instance someone wants to use particularly expensive materials this will push up the construction costs but will not affect the complexity of the build or increase the input from an the architect. I fully agree with ONQ's sentiments on what some people may perceive as being 'good value' is in fact exploitation but that works both ways. Is not a percentage fee a way of exploiting a situation where clients building an expensive house are seen as being able to afford to pay a professional more than he would have received were the house the same design but using less expensive materials? All professions and trades people and workers are suffering at the moment and out of necessity 'the client' will be looking for value for money ... which may indeed result in exploitation. Have we all not been living in cloud cuckoo land for the past 10 years???
 
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