Thanks ONQ. Let's set the information free (I was only concerned about hijacking OP's thread)
I own an ex-council, end-of-terrace two-bed in Dublin 12. It has an awfully-built small kitchen extension, which is colder than my fridge. I want to demolish this, and build a new 2-storey extension incorporating a new, larger kitchen and a third bedroom upstairs.
The job will probably involve a fair amount of remodelling upstairs (i.e. a new bathroom, making the existing second bedroom bigger, different landing to facilitiate doors etc...).
I'll also be looking to upgrade the insulation on the existing house as much as possible (including externally on the gable end, attic, a smal bit of dry lining).
If my budget allows, I may also convert the existing attic (if it makes sense and I am allowed) into a very small office space (just to keep my teacher wife and her homework-correcting off the kitchen table).
No fancy finishing, whatever the middle-of-the-road stuff costs....
I intend to employ the services of a design professional to advise me, and a contractor to do the job.
The whole added space will probably be a max of 350 sq ft. I'm not bothered if the design means I have to apply for planning, as long as the job is the right one.
Will I have any change out of a mill?
Cheers
Hi RIAD_BSC
You can ignore my little joke above.
You may *just* have change out of 100K.
The professional fees do not include for a structural engineer.
I prefer to retain one even on small jobs - if the structure is okay any other defects are relatively small ones.
It was polite of you to be concerned, but this isn't as strictly moderated as some forums.
This advice is offered in the presence of unknowns and remote from the action.
Brief Economic Appraisal:
Your house is 2-bed end of terrace, so its - what - 800 sqft?
To put this in prespective, you are building on an additional 50% of your existing area and upgrading the envelope..
Am I correct in thinking that the houses in the mid-terrace are actually 3 bed and that the end-of-terrace houses are two bed?
If this is the case then your upgrade may reflect well on the value of your property.
Regardless you should carfeully assess the cost against the likely increase in value.
Several estate agents are reporting a stabilization in the market in Dublin and some surrounding counties.
They're usually a few months early with such comments to "talk things up" again.
Nevertheless a SOuth Dublin estate agent reported a sale of over a million last month.
This is tehe first time in over a year - so matters may in fact be improving.
Why am I discussing this?
Because you should fully consider your options.
Including whether or not you should trade up as opposed to extend.
Cost Estimate:
The only publicly available cost estimates for building work that I am aware of is the Bruce Shaw guidelines for Rebuilding Costs.
This gives a good overview of how the contruction industry is being squeezed from both ends at the moment.
As far as I know Society of Chartered Surveyors post similar figures.
http://www.bruceshaw.ie/cost_management/latest_publications/Bruce Shaw Handbook 09.pdf
From Table, Page Number 45/ Sheet No. 60 in the PDF File; -
Society of Chartered Surveyors
House Rebuilding Costs per m2 May ‘08
The typical cost of rebuilding a 2-bedroom 70 sqm terraced house in the dublin area on 2009 was €2,211 per square metre.
This is based on re-building, not building and is qualified as follows:
1. The figures shown in the table are a minimum base cost guide for your house insurance.
2. The figures are based on estate type houses built since the 1960’s. They exclude; (a) Properties with more than 2 storeys
or with basements or habitable attics (b) One-off houses with special design features or period houses (c) Apartment /
residential flats because of split responsibilities for shared areas. The insurance of apartments is covered in the block
service charge. Owners should confirm with their management companies / agents that their apartment block has been
valued for insurance purposes, and that the insured value is current.
3. The figures assume a basic quality specification with normal foundations, brick or block walls, concrete tiled roof,
concrete ground floor and timber first floor, soft wood flush doors and hardwood double glazed windows, painted plaster
to walls, plastered ceilings, standard electrics and central heating. The sum insured should be increased to allow for
better than average kitchen fittings, built-in wardrobes, finishes and any other items not normally included in an estate
type house (e.g. fire alarm).
4. House contents such as carpets, curtains, furniture, etc. are not covered by the figures.
5. No allowance has been made for the cost of out-buildings, patios or boundary walls. The figures do however allow for a
concrete path around the house, for driveway repairs and regrassing.
6. The figures allow for demolition costs, professional fees incurred in reinstatement and VAT at 13.5% on building costs and
21% on professional fees.
7. The amounts included for professional fees have been calculated to cover the following services: Building Surveyor /
Architect and Quantity Surveyor.
8. The costs are based on building rates ruling in May 2008 and do not include for inflation during the duration of the policy
and the period between any loss occurring and reinstatement.
As noted at the start of this post the professional fees do not include for a structural engineer.
Calculation:
350 ÷ 10.764 x 2211 = €71,892
10.764 is the conversion factor sq.ft. to sq.m.
Tender Prices
The extension I referred to was priced on the basis of high end build quality and attention to the client.
The costs given above are for average estate speculative build to current building regulation standards.
Refer to Page Number 1/ Sheet No. 8 in the PDF File and read this and the next page.
You will see that you could achieve tender prices substantially below this.
Given the labour rates and materials prices, these will constitute below cost selling
From the Bruce SHaw Handbook, Page Number 2/
===============================
Input Costs
The costs of construction inputs during
2009 are likely tomirror general inflation
trends. The proposed national pay deal
which would have granted workers an
increase of 3.5% in October 2008 followed
by a further increase of 2.5% for 12
months in April 2009, has been rejected.
Instead, contractors are seeking a
reduction in wage rates of 10% in order
to safeguard jobs. While some materials
manufacturers may seek to increase
prices, these are likely to be resisted and
some oil based materials will decrease
in price. On average we are predicting a
modest increase of 1.5% in input costs
for 2009, down from an average increase
of 3% for 2008.
Tender Prices
Construction tender prices, while affected
by input costs, are muchmore influenced
by supply and demand forces. In Bruce
Shaw we have been monitoring tender
prices for many years. Our analysis for
2008 shows that tender levels have fallen
on average by 12%, although in some
cases, falls of over 20% have been
witnessed. This major fall in tender
levels, despite rising input costs during
the year, has occurred as contractors
and sub-contractors have competed
exceptionally aggressively in order to
secure work to retain key staff in a
dramatically dwindling market. This has
resulted in many tenders being submitted
at well below cost.
The graph overleaf shows the Bruce
Shaw cost and tender indices from 2000
to 2008 with our predictions for 2009. The
gap between the cost of construction
inputs and tender levels is particularly
striking for 2008 and 2009.The fall in
tender prices is likely to continue during
2009 as contractors and sub-contractors
chase increasingly diminishing volumes
of work. However the fall in 2009 at 4% to
5% will be less dramatic than in 2008 as
below cost tendering has obvious
inherent dangers and can only be
regarded as a short-term solution at best.
These falling tender prices do however
offer very good value for clients who have
funds in place to commence construction
projects and it is to be hoped that some of
these will proceed in the latter half of
2009, as banking restrictions lessen. At a
national level, there is also great value to
be had by Government and it is also to be
hoped that the deteriorating finances do
not result in a significant slowdown in
public capital expenditure, which is
needed to safeguard jobs and to provide a
stimulus for the overall economy.
============================
Conclusion
At the end of the day you will build it for what your successful tenderer says he will build it for.
However you should be wary of accepting tender bids that are too low.
These will constitute below-cost selling/building of the project.
This has some unfortunate implications for the "good price".
- How long can that contractor stay in business?
- Has he priced other work on a similar basis?
- Will he finally go bust doing your house?
Every bargain carries an element of risk.
FWIW
ONQ.
[broken link removed]